Unfiltered Union

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This is Linz.

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And this is Russ.

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And we're married.

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Are we?

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Yep, since 2013.

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We're the hosts of the Unfiltered Union podcast.

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Where we discuss popular headlines and interview interesting people.

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Our opinions may vary, but we will never censor our guests or our viewpoints.

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Welcome to the Unfiltered Union.

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We have another guest.

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Good job!

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I'm supposed to do the intro this time.

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You volunteered to do the intro this time.

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No, I didn't, but okay.

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All right.

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Today we have with us Kaylee Grant, aka Kay.

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She grew up outside Philadelphia with a deep love and longing for the ocean and the

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curiosity of its inhabitants.

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Kay has a Bachelor of Science in Ecotourism and completed the Marine Option Program

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at the University of Hawaii.

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as well as a shark specialty course with Queensland University and Cornell University.

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She's been living in Hawaii for the past 12 years and was able to further her love

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of the ocean and learn invaluable information about safety and sharks from the

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amazing team at One Ocean Diving from 2015 to 2020.

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Kay has guided ocean goers of all walks of life at home in Hawaii as well as around

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the globe with her Kaimana expeditions.

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Kay is passionate about connecting people to the ocean in a deeper way and

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inspiring others to change their daily habits to better benefit the natural world.

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On board,

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Kay will teach you how to properly interact with animals,

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safely interact with sharks,

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the importance of cutting out single-use plastics,

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which sunscreens are safe for the reef,

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and more.

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Good job.

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That was a struggle for me.

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We're growing here.

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I don't know how to read good.

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But I mean, all that to say, let's start from the very beginning with you here, Kay.

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You talk about how you grew up outside of Philadelphia.

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Yeah, Philadelphia.

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Ocean.

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To Hawaii is big.

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Right.

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So what started your interest in the ocean and wanting to interact with animals of the sea?

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Well, my dog is like climbing under me.

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Thank you guys so much for having me.

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I'm excited to be here.

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Yeah, I grew up outside of Philadelphia in an area called Bucks County.

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And so I spent my summers as a kid going to Jersey Shore, just like everybody.

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you see on TV.

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And I loved whales when I was growing up.

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We are in the generation of, or I'm in the generation of growing up to Free Willy and the Little Mermaid.

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And, you know, I just loved whales.

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So my dad would take me whale watching off of the coast of Massachusetts.

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And from there, you know, I kind of just went through the typical

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go to school, get a job sort of routine.

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After I was a kid,

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I didn't really realize that working in the ocean was necessarily a possibility for me.

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But after I graduated college, I moved out to Hawaii.

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And from there I was fully surrounded by the ocean.

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So it was inevitable that I revisited this love of the ocean and marine life.

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So from there I started working as a dive master and taking people scuba diving.

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And I remember on my first scuba dive,

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when I was learning how to scuba dive,

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I found a shark tooth in the sand and I like brought it up to my instructor and I

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was like,

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look,

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this is so cool.

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And he was like, well, that's awesome because you know, what a special rare find.

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And I think that was like a sign that they were going to be in my life and very important to me.

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So then I went on to work with sharks on the North Shore of Oahu for many years

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before finally starting my own company called Kaimana Ocean Safari out here in Kona

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with my husband,

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Cam.

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That's awesome.

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Do you still have that shark tooth?

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I do.

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Oh, yes.

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Amongst many more that I've collected now over the years.

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Yeah, that's a pass down through the generation type deal right there.

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Absolutely.

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It was certainly a very special omen.

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So I actually put on a necklace and I'd been wearing it around for quite a while.

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Right on.

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So, so what, what drew you to Hawaii?

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I mean,

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you kind of gave us some hints that working with the ocean and stuff,

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but like I said before,

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Philadelphia,

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Hawaii,

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that's,

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that's a lot of miles.

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Yeah.

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That's pretty far.

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Oh, yeah, that's a really big leap.

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And I was not as well-traveled as I am now coming out of college.

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I had never been more west than Texas.

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So that was a huge leap for me.

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Throughout my college career,

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I did some volunteering programs where I went down to Central and South America and

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volunteered to help teach kids English and things like that.

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So during that,

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it just I think travel is a way to really expand your mind and teach you so much

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about the world around you.

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And for me, that was definitely the case.

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I was like, wow, there is so much more to the world than this like county that I grew up in.

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And so when I graduated college, I was like, OK, like I want to keep going.

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I want to keep traveling and see what else is out there.

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So I didn't necessarily have a plan.

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My degree is in ecotourism.

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So I kind of knew that I wanted to take people on adventures one day.

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I didn't exactly at the time know what that looked like.

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I really, I value experiences a lot and I think that they can really shape and change people.

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So that is what I wanted to give people.

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That's what I wanted to do with my purpose.

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And then luckily I was able to combine that with

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the ocean, but I was just looking for my next adventure essentially and what I want to do next.

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And I was looking at places all over the world,

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but I had a friend that I was in college with and he was like,

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yeah,

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you can come like crash on my couch for until you find a place.

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And I was like, you're in Hawaii.

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Okay.

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That doesn't sound like a bad idea.

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I had about like $3,000 in my pocket and three suitcases.

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And I went out, I bought a scooter.

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I was like on a moped for the first couple years of living out there.

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And I got a job at a restaurant and that's kind of like how it all started.

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I mean, that's awesome.

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I mean, the plane ticket alone, though, probably ate up a lot of your savings.

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I know.

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I was just like a young, broke college student.

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But it's almost like, yeah, just things were so simple, like way more simple back then.

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So it was easier than it would be for me to do something like that now.

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So I'm glad I took the leap at that time in my life.

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For sure.

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I mean,

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I'm not saying we did a huge leap like that,

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but we went from Virginia to Florida and that was rough.

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So bad.

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It was awful.

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I recommend people to check out Florida,

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but moving across state lines,

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you got to really think about it before you do it and kind of plan because it was

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rough for us.

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Yeah.

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It's hard.

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Oh, yeah.

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For sure.

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And I think with Florida, we have all of our favorite things about living here.

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Kay, what would you say is your favorite thing about Hawaii living?

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Oh, my gosh, definitely the ocean, especially like out here in Kona.

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It's just it's really my favorite place to dive.

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So I'm very lucky that I live somewhere that is my favorite place to dive.

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And also the Aloha spirit.

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You know,

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whenever I'm like back on the East Coast or on the mainland,

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I can definitely feel the energy of the hustle and bustle around me a little bit more.

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Just kind of like that slow pace, that island life.

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The aloha spirit is definitely very prevalent here.

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And, you know, you can feel it when you're just here.

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Right.

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It's a culture thing.

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And we never had a big culture scene in Virginia where we're from.

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Right.

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But down here, Tampa's like that.

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It's super weird.

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The community here is big, and the sports teams are actually rooted for here, unlike in Virginia.

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Everybody only watches hockey there.

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I think it's hard to realize there is culture where you're from,

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but other people would probably see it if they went to Virginia.

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It's just like we're so used to our own upbringing.

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Oh, yeah, yeah.

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I can see that for sure because Virginia is, what do they call it, the birthplace of presidents.

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And there's a lot of history in Virginia, but it's like we lived there all our life, so eh.

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You know,

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we were we were poked and prodded at school like you're from the place where all

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the presidents came from.

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And I guess it just falls on deaf ears after a while.

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Well, diving in here.

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So how did you really get your start with shark diving?

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Like where would you like pinpoint?

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I mean, you mentioned the tooth.

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Is that kind of what led you to, hey, maybe I can find sharks in the wild?

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Yeah, for sure.

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I always tell people like,

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cause people will ask all the time and sort of over complicated,

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like,

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how did you do this?

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What should I do?

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You know, what exactly is your job and where did you learn in all of these things?

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And it's actually just like way more simple than you think, you know?

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just go to the ocean.

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Just go in the ocean as much as you can.

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And you're bound to start seeing some things and learning a lot.

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The sharks are the best teachers too.

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And basically whatever subject it is that you're interested in, just spend time

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Hanging out with them.

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Look at the guy, my octopus teacher, right?

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And how he was able to like have this whole form,

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this whole connection and do this whole documentary just by going out there every

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day and spending time looking for this octopus.

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So it's kind of like the same thing,

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you know,

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and in Hawaii,

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there are areas that are more prevalent for sharks,

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the North Shore of Oahu being one of them.

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And but really anywhere, you know, so mine really started with scuba diving.

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And I always recommend if people are looking to have a job in the ocean to start

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with scuba diving,

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go out,

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get your dive master.

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I recommend Patty and just like work in the industry.

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If you become the person that's taking the people out,

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like you're going to be out so often and you're going to see more things and learn

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more stuff.

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So just making sure spending time

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in the ocean and taking people out there.

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And over time, you know, you definitely learn a thing or two.

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So I have a question and it is around the public perception of sharks is nothing

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but fear,

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but you swim with them.

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You know them a lot better than,

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you know,

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the discovery channel feeding somebody who sits on the couch and watches that all day.

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And we've seen videos of you touch them.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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So what I'm trying to get at is why are they important and what does the ocean look like without sharks?

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Because they are a key player to the ecosystem and people don't tend to understand that.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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Well, regarding the fear of sharks, I think it's a normal thing.

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They're wild animals.

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They're apex predators.

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And I never want to become someone that preaches that they're puppy dogs because

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it's just really not the case.

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Right.

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They should be,

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you know,

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I wouldn't say like feared demonized,

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but like feared to like a healthy degree that it's like,

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OK,

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I have respect for that animal and that is a wild animal.

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And like it's their home, it's their ocean and all of those good things.

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So

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You know,

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a lot of the videos I put out,

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sometimes it's like,

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hey,

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they're not the man-eating monsters because after all the time that I've spent in

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the water with them,

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if they were,

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I would not be alive.

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But then I also want to show people,

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but yes,

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they are predators and we shouldn't just take that for granted and do things that

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are sort of stupid and sort of asking for it.

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So there's a very fine line there.

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um and i think once people learn okay and see them for themselves especially

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getting to go in the water with sharks like okay they're not man-eating monsters

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their demeanor is totally different than what the movies and these like overly

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dramatized things portray and then when they learn okay they're really important

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for the ocean's ecosystem they help regulate all of the fish populations they

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remove

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the dead, dying, weak individuals to leave only the strong to survive and reproduce.

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They help keep everything in balance.

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Everything in the ecosystem, everything in that food chain has a role from the bottom to the top.

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And sharks being at the top, they have a very important role as well.

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And if we remove them from the ecosystem,

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we create what's called a trophic cascade where everything below is actually

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severely affected as well.

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So they are really important for the ecosystem.

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And then people also learn

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hey, okay, so there's this animal.

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They're not as scary as the media portrays.

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They're really important for the ecosystem.

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And then they learn,

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wow,

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they're being killed at a rate of over 100 million sharks per year for their meat,

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for their fins,

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as bycatch.

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And all of that was sort of a factor for me to be like,

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okay,

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I want to do something about it and try to save and protect them or just show the

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general public how awesome they are and teach them all of this stuff.

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So

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It's been really cool because I do think that there has been a bit of a shift in

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people understanding sharks and falling in love with sharks.

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And it's been cool to sort of be a part of that in a way.

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Yeah.

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I mean, do you think the media plays a part in the misconception of sharks?

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Or is there something else at play?

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Absolutely.

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For sure, the media.

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Like, it's still so frustrating because I do feel like we have come a long way, like I was saying.

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But I think that we still have a long way to go.

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Even when you see...

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what I would call a shark encounter where maybe somebody's swimming and a shark

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comes by,

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like there's times where that will still be labeled an attack.

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And if the shark's literally doing nothing, it's just swimming in the ocean, just lives there.

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You're in his house.

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Yeah, exactly.

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So that is really frustrating.

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And I think the mainstream media definitely likes to sensationalize and

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uh overly dramatize everything and definitely with sharks getting that headline you

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know attack and creating that fear is just going to sell more views and more you

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know attention so i still think that we have a long way to go but that's sort of

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yeah another topic on the media and how terrible they can be with so many different

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topics but sharks fall victim to that too yeah yeah

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For sure.

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Yeah.

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So you said they're, they're killed a lot.

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I mean, overfishing and things like that, but you said they're killed for their fins and stuff.

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Can you kind of explain why they're killed for that?

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Cause I know at least in the U S I don't think shark fin soup is a, is much of a delicacy here.

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Yeah,

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I had never heard of shark fin soup before moving to Hawaii and getting a little

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closer to Asia where it's mainly served as China.

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But we can't even just blame one particular country because so many countries

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around the world are contributing to the harvesting of the fins.

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So it's really a global issue for sure.

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But shark fin soup is sort of like a delicacy,

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something that you would have on special occasions like weddings.

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And it's just the fin of the shark.

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So much of the shark when they're finning them is wasted,

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often tossed back into the ocean and disregarded.

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Obviously,

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it's best if you do kill something to utilize the entire animal versus just a small

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portion of their body.

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This portion of their body has no taste, no nutritional value even.

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And in fact, shark meat is very high in mercury, so it's actually bad for you.

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I do think that there's going to be a lot of changes in the near future and there already has been.

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I know that the Chinese government, I believe they banned serving shark fin soup in government events.

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So that is a step in the right direction.

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They're starting to like recognize it maybe a bit.

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So we just want to keep getting that word out there and let people know what it is,

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why it's harmful for the sharks,

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for humans,

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for humans.

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Their fins for shark fin soup and their meat.

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And a third one is bycatch is huge,

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is why they're being killed at a rate of,

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and this is like an estimate,

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it could be way more than this,

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about 100 million per year.

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And they think that some estimates say it could be over 200 million per year, which is just...

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mind-blowing um so in addition to the shark fin soup there's also a big problem

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with how we fish these days we just fish very indiscriminately uh we have we've

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become really good at fishing so we're able to catch everything basically in the

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area and that leads to a lot of animals that we didn't even intend to catch getting

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caught and then dying usually fighting on that line um

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And that is essentially bycatch.

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So sharks are a huge,

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huge target in bycatch because they would eat the same things that a tuna would eat.

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So if we're trying to catch tuna and we are laying out thousands of baited hooks

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with whatever type of bait to catch tuna,

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you know,

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if a shark swims by,

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they're going to get that too.

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And the problem with sharks specifically being caught as bycatch or killed for

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their fins or being just killed in general is that

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Being that animal at the top of the food chain, they do have a slower reproductive rate.

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They don't reproduce as quickly as something in the lower levels to replenish their population.

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So they're having a really hard time,

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obviously,

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keeping up with these numbers,

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like 100 million sharks per year.

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So that is pretty much the plight of sharks.

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Yeah, it's terrible.

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I mean,

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on top of their slow,

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I guess,

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offspring,

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their reproduction,

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they also struggle,

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I guess,

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with having multiple in the womb,

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right?

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They not all make it.

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Is that a true thing?

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Or did I just see that on TikTok?

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I think that's great whites, right?

(00:19:06):
Yeah, reproduction is definitely different with each individual species, but a lot that give live births.

(00:19:14):
In the womb, sometimes they can actually eat each other a little bit before they come out.

(00:19:19):
And then when they come out, depending on the species, they're small.

(00:19:22):
They're more like fish size.

(00:19:24):
They're more like bait size.

(00:19:25):
So then they have to worry about other predators, especially like larger sharks going after them.

(00:19:29):
So there's a lot that is going into it.

(00:19:33):
And you're talking about animals that are a lot of species are small.

(00:19:37):
having live births versus spawning, you know, like thousands of eggs and things like that.

(00:19:42):
So it's just a lot harder for them to keep up with.

(00:19:45):
And there's usually casualties, you know, and each kind of litter of pups.

(00:19:49):
So, and baby sharks are called pups, which is so cute.

(00:19:53):
So we should love sharks just for that.

(00:19:55):
Yeah.

(00:19:55):
Right.

(00:19:56):
As soon as you said that, I was like, she said, they have puppy teeth, right?

(00:20:03):
Little baby teeth.

(00:20:05):
Yeah.

(00:20:07):
Well,

(00:20:07):
I mean,

(00:20:08):
so you have a picture behind you and that picture behind you,

(00:20:11):
you are swimming with,

(00:20:13):
I'm going to assume it's a great white.

(00:20:15):
It's big.

(00:20:15):
Yes, that one is very big.

(00:20:17):
That's definitely the biggest shark with teeth that I've seen ever.

(00:20:22):
Probably like the biggest shark I've seen ever.

(00:20:24):
That was in 2019.

(00:20:27):
And I was in Hawaii off the coast of Oahu about 12 miles and there was a dead whale carcass.

(00:20:34):
So a lot of people are always surprised to hear that there was a great white in Hawaii.

(00:20:37):
That's crazy.

(00:20:39):
We do have great whites here.

(00:20:40):
They're just extremely rare to see because the water is quite warm for them.

(00:20:44):
um and so they like to stay down a little deeper where it's cold but a lot of them

(00:20:49):
will kind of follow the great whites out from California out to Hawaii um and

(00:20:54):
hopefully you know or hopefully running across a dead one and then they're able to

(00:20:58):
gorge themselves and really get stuffed in a lot of nutrients and um kind of

(00:21:03):
replenish that so we were lucky enough to find the dead whale and I

(00:21:07):
Did not expect something like a great white to pop up, but that was such an amazing experience.

(00:21:14):
We actually recently had another dead whale in Kona,

(00:21:16):
so that would be my third over the 12 years that I've lived here.

(00:21:21):
So, you know, whales die.

(00:21:23):
It's always sad, of course.

(00:21:26):
They die a lot just of natural causes, just like anything else.

(00:21:31):
Sometimes human causes too, of course, but they feed an ecosystem so well.

(00:21:35):
A dead whale feeds an ecosystem for something like 10 years because every,

(00:21:40):
you know,

(00:21:40):
you get the sharks and the fish and things like that.

(00:21:43):
But then as it sinks, it's decomposing and it hits the seafloor and there's all types of other

(00:21:48):
decomposers down there that are feeding on it for ages until the bones are

(00:21:53):
decomposing then so um it's a really fascinating kind of event to get to see but

(00:21:59):
yeah great white came up um and she was feeding on the dead whale and she was

(00:22:04):
totally

(00:22:06):
like relaxed and chill, probably many reasons for that.

(00:22:09):
She may have been pregnant, you know, do you wanna run around attacking stuff when you're pregnant?

(00:22:14):
You probably just wanna lay on the couch and eat.

(00:22:17):
She also had a huge feast, a huge dead whale that was,

(00:22:23):
providing her so much food that she was like, I'm not going to mess with these like humans.

(00:22:29):
And there was dolphins there.

(00:22:30):
She's like, I'm not going to mess with these dolphins.

(00:22:32):
I'm just going to go for this big, free, easy meal here, you know, with this dead whale.

(00:22:38):
So it was really beautiful, really peaceful, really amazing experience.

(00:22:42):
I'm so grateful for it,

(00:22:44):
but definitely not something I would recommend that somebody should just think,

(00:22:47):
oh yeah,

(00:22:48):
mermaid Kaylee said that

(00:22:50):
Great whites are safe because that is not the case.

(00:22:53):
You know, like I said, any shark has the potential to be dangerous.

(00:22:57):
They're not little puppy dogs.

(00:22:59):
And especially something like a great white.

(00:23:01):
They're just so huge and massive.

(00:23:03):
If they did something like an exploratory bite to find out what you are,

(00:23:06):
that could mean that your limb is gone.

(00:23:08):
That could mean that you die.

(00:23:10):
And there were great whites that I was able to swim with in New Zealand inside of a

(00:23:14):
cage that were behaving a lot different than this beautiful big lady here.

(00:23:20):
smaller juvenile very athletic and breaching as they're hunting and the water is

(00:23:25):
murkier and yeah i was totally fine being in a cage so i would say go try to swim

(00:23:30):
with them in a cage that's where you're going to be safe and you're going to get to

(00:23:33):
see them and they're really really amazing um and this was sort of like a once in a

(00:23:38):
lifetime moment with like a very once in a lifetime type of shark

(00:23:43):
and you got a picture it's an awesome picture yeah exactly you have to you gotta

(00:23:50):
have that right i mean i think even with a cage i think my heart rate would start

(00:23:56):
to rise right and i would start to feel the adrenaline racing through me i mean

(00:24:01):
what what would be your advice to someone who's either in a cage or free diving and

(00:24:05):
encounters a shark like how do you stay calm

(00:24:09):
I know.

(00:24:09):
Well,

(00:24:10):
staying calm is probably the hardest part,

(00:24:12):
but the most important part because they can really like,

(00:24:15):
they're very good at sort of reading energy because how they communicate with each

(00:24:20):
other even is through body language.

(00:24:22):
So staying calm is going to be utmost important.

(00:24:26):
If you panic, that's not, that's the worst thing that you can do essentially.

(00:24:31):
So as best you can just stay calm, just realize, Hey, this is a shark.

(00:24:34):
This is where they live.

(00:24:36):
You know, hopefully they're not doing anything bad.

(00:24:39):
aggressive.

(00:24:40):
They're just kind of hanging out there.

(00:24:41):
So stay calm, stay relaxed.

(00:24:44):
Because if you start splashing,

(00:24:46):
panicking,

(00:24:46):
flailing,

(00:24:47):
then you look eye-catching the sharks and be like,

(00:24:49):
okay,

(00:24:50):
is that something that's hurt or injured?

(00:24:52):
I should probably go like check that out a little closer.

(00:24:55):
So stay nice and calm.

(00:24:56):
Then you want to make eye contact with the shark.

(00:24:59):
And I know most people can't even make eye contact with like the Starbucks barista these days, but

(00:25:04):
Make eye contact with the shark.

(00:25:06):
You want to look it in their eye because you look more like a predator that way.

(00:25:10):
It's very similar,

(00:25:11):
all of these things,

(00:25:12):
to what we hear about bears,

(00:25:13):
except we just hear it more and it makes more sense for us because bears live on

(00:25:17):
land like we do.

(00:25:19):
We hear, you know, say, hey, bear, get big.

(00:25:22):
Look at it.

(00:25:22):
Don't turn your back and run away.

(00:25:24):
That's going to make the bear want to chase you.

(00:25:26):
It's kind of the same thing with the shark.

(00:25:28):
Look at the shark.

(00:25:29):
Get big,

(00:25:31):
don't splash,

(00:25:32):
flail,

(00:25:32):
any sudden movements,

(00:25:33):
but you can slowly back away,

(00:25:35):
but just go backwards while you're looking at it,

(00:25:38):
okay?

(00:25:38):
And then if the shark is coming up to you, you can stick your fin out towards the shark.

(00:25:43):
Maybe you have like your GoPro pole on you.

(00:25:45):
Maybe you have a surfboard.

(00:25:46):
If you can put something between you and the animal, obviously that's gonna be a really great barrier.

(00:25:53):
And if not,

(00:25:54):
of course,

(00:25:55):
there is the redirecting with your hand technique,

(00:25:58):
which obviously I wouldn't recommend for someone to just go out and try that

(00:26:01):
doesn't have this experience.

(00:26:02):
But in an emergency situation,

(00:26:04):
if that's all you have on you,

(00:26:06):
you want to push on top of their head and kind of push them away like a little

(00:26:09):
Heisman over top of them.

(00:26:12):
And yeah, you know, slowly back away and get out of the water.

(00:26:14):
But what a lot of people don't realize is that

(00:26:18):
It can be really easy to avoid a shark encounter before you even get in the water.

(00:26:23):
One of the things you can do, look around.

(00:26:25):
If the water looks pretty murky, you probably want to avoid swimming in it if you can.

(00:26:31):
Go in groups if you have more people around you.

(00:26:34):
You might look more intimidating to a shark.

(00:26:36):
You have more people to look around, watch your back.

(00:26:39):
Don't go in anywhere where people are fishing.

(00:26:43):
Sometimes you'll see people fishing from land,

(00:26:45):
from piers,

(00:26:46):
or even a dive flag out there could indicate somebody spearfishing.

(00:26:50):
If there's dead fish in the water, that could attract sharks closer, which is probably pretty obvious.

(00:26:55):
And also after heavy rainfall,

(00:26:58):
you want to avoid swimming because there could be really heavy rainfall making the

(00:27:03):
water murky.

(00:27:03):
But also if there's flooding, you can sometimes sweep land animals from land out to sea.

(00:27:10):
And that does happen out here in Hawaii.

(00:27:12):
And we will see the sharks coming up and,

(00:27:14):
you know,

(00:27:15):
the garbage men of the sea sort of with the tiger sharks,

(00:27:17):
they'll clean it all up.

(00:27:19):
So you want to avoid being around that at all.

(00:27:24):
For sure.

(00:27:24):
See, I never thought about that, like land animals being in the shark diet, too.

(00:27:29):
I mean.

(00:27:31):
It's crazy.

(00:27:32):
No, it didn't make sense.

(00:27:33):
Especially in Florida and Hawaii and places where it rains a lot and things get the

(00:27:38):
runoff into the ocean.

(00:27:39):
It rains a lot here and we get freshwater eels floating up through the storm drains.

(00:27:43):
It's disgusting.

(00:27:45):
yeah something special crazy yeah my husband my husband actually captured um a

(00:27:51):
really cool drone video of a dead boar that had been swept out a couple miles it

(00:27:56):
was already dead um and there was a tiger shark eating it so it definitely happens

(00:28:01):
here um we i've heard about it here in kona with dead goats dead boar so it's

(00:28:07):
definitely something that happens

(00:28:08):
Yeah.

(00:28:09):
It makes a lot of sense for sure.

(00:28:11):
It really does.

(00:28:11):
I mean,

(00:28:12):
we've talked about the idea of bike or what is happening with bycatch and the

(00:28:17):
threats that are occurring to sharks at this point.

(00:28:20):
I mean, overall, what would you say is the biggest threat to ocean life?

(00:28:23):
Hmm.

(00:28:25):
Well, um,

(00:28:29):
I definitely stand by saying that our fishing practices need to change.

(00:28:34):
I'm not against fishing.

(00:28:36):
My husband's a spear fisherman.

(00:28:37):
I think there's so many ways,

(00:28:39):
especially if you can go out and get your own seafood,

(00:28:41):
that we can make it really sustainable.

(00:28:43):
So just the ways that we fish...

(00:28:46):
need to change obviously if you cannot eat fish altogether that's amazing or you

(00:28:51):
know know that you're going out and getting it yourself but it's really the

(00:28:54):
industries that we need to take a look at and how they're operating um and then you

(00:28:59):
know i'm not as well versed in all of this but climate change is for sure affecting

(00:29:06):
the ocean negatively um it makes me so sad because i just see on like all my

(00:29:12):
instagram page so many corals around the world are just like

(00:29:15):
bleaching and that just feels like we're gonna lose something like we're watching

(00:29:22):
it before our eyes so yeah that really makes me sad

(00:29:26):
Yeah.

(00:29:26):
I mean,

(00:29:27):
and speaking about corals,

(00:29:28):
we,

(00:29:28):
I think during your introduction,

(00:29:31):
we talk about sunscreens that are safe for reefs.

(00:29:33):
I mean, do you have any recommendations of sunscreens that are safe?

(00:29:37):
Yeah, for sure.

(00:29:38):
I really like this sunscreen brand called All Good.

(00:29:42):
They're on Amazon too.

(00:29:44):
And they have,

(00:29:44):
I think they have like tinted sunscreens too and like the regular zinc,

(00:29:48):
but what makes them really good and what you can look for if you're looking for sunscreens,

(00:29:51):
it is a great way to do your part.

(00:29:53):
You know, it's,

(00:29:56):
It's really like a lot of the big countries and these huge corporations that need to make the change.

(00:30:02):
But of course we can help in our own little personal ways as well.

(00:30:05):
But this company,

(00:30:06):
what you'll look for on the back,

(00:30:09):
as you may know,

(00:30:10):
you look for only zinc or titanium within the sunscreen as the active ingredient

(00:30:15):
should be right there at the top on the back of the sunscreen bottle.

(00:30:19):
But not only that, what a lot of people don't know is you also want to look for non-nano zinc oxide.

(00:30:26):
That will just assure that the particles within the sunscreen,

(00:30:32):
the particles of the zinc,

(00:30:34):
are not small enough for the corals to consume them within the water.

(00:30:39):
So that's the problem with the chemical sunscreens.

(00:30:42):
The corals are actually ingesting the chemicals and filtering it.

(00:30:48):
so with the non-nano zinc the particles are just not big enough to actually go

(00:30:53):
through that process so it's not only zinc it's non-nano zinc but even just zinc is

(00:30:59):
better than the chemicals so there's like levels of how good your sunscreen can be

(00:31:04):
but check out all good they're really

(00:31:05):
They're good.

(00:31:06):
They're all good.

(00:31:06):
They're all good.

(00:31:08):
Nice plug there.

(00:31:09):
Branding for them.

(00:31:11):
Yeah.

(00:31:11):
Yeah.

(00:31:12):
Right.

(00:31:13):
So,

(00:31:14):
well,

(00:31:15):
I think sunscreen is,

(00:31:18):
is definitely something that we can change,

(00:31:20):
but you're also a big proponent of eliminating single use plastics.

(00:31:24):
Yeah.

(00:31:25):
So what do you think just your average Joe can do to kind of remove or not remove?

(00:31:31):
Because we can't, because like you said, big industry, they use plastic for everything.

(00:31:35):
But what can we do to kind of lower our plastic footprint to help our oceans?

(00:31:43):
I think that...

(00:31:45):
Of course we can use less single use plastic.

(00:31:48):
Like I have a Yeti instead of the water bottles and we just use a filter at the house.

(00:31:55):
And there's so many reasons that's so much better for you.

(00:31:57):
It's like,

(00:31:59):
there's not plastic leaching into your drinking water and all of those chemicals,

(00:32:03):
it's cheaper and all of these things.

(00:32:04):
So I think everyone should definitely just be using a reusable water bottle to start.

(00:32:08):
That's a great place to start.

(00:32:10):
reusable bags keep them in your car you know say no to straws try to catch them at

(00:32:15):
the restaurant before they throw them on the table because that's all they do now

(00:32:17):
is just throw it on the table it's like wait no i don't need that um so those

(00:32:21):
things are really great but like we said it's the bigger businesses and the

(00:32:25):
corporations that we need to be holding accountable but we can do that with our

(00:32:29):
purchasing power and just us as consumers so every time that you are supporting a

(00:32:34):
brand

(00:32:35):
that is doing the right thing,

(00:32:37):
sustainable,

(00:32:37):
even if it costs a little bit extra,

(00:32:39):
that is going to force those bigger corporations to need to compete and keep up

(00:32:44):
with the buying power that we have and the dollar sign,

(00:32:48):
because that's unfortunately what drives

(00:32:51):
so much today is the economics around it all.

(00:32:54):
So yeah,

(00:32:55):
we actually can make a big difference just with our purchasing power,

(00:32:59):
just with the choices that we make.

(00:33:01):
So I would say,

(00:33:01):
you know,

(00:33:02):
support and supporting locals,

(00:33:04):
supporting things that are closer to you,

(00:33:06):
small businesses within your community and think about that economy.

(00:33:09):
And then when you do need to buy something,

(00:33:12):
see if there's the more sustainable choices out there that you can gravitate

(00:33:15):
towards and put your dollar towards that.

(00:33:18):
And that I think will make a bigger difference over time.

(00:33:20):
Yeah.

(00:33:22):
I have some, I have a recommendation for shampoo and, and, uh, body wash and deodorant.

(00:33:27):
Is that ethic, ethic, ethic company?

(00:33:30):
Yeah.

(00:33:30):
Yeah.

(00:33:31):
Yeah.

(00:33:31):
That, that we used it.

(00:33:33):
Yep.

(00:33:33):
It's awesome.

(00:33:34):
Yeah.

(00:33:35):
It works just as well.

(00:33:36):
It's a bar of soap, not in a bottle.

(00:33:38):
It's in a, a compostable box.

(00:33:40):
Yeah.

(00:33:41):
yeah i was surprised at like how well that worked too because um and i really like

(00:33:46):
that brand also but um the conditioner i was worried because like i'm in the ocean

(00:33:50):
all the time so it's like real salty real crunchy and all that good stuff but it

(00:33:55):
worked really well the condition was like it was like better than regular condition

(00:33:59):
i was like whoa i'm like detangling like super well so yeah i agree

(00:34:03):
Yeah, yeah.

(00:34:04):
I mean, I don't know why you... There's no... To me, other than cost, it is a little bit more expensive.

(00:34:09):
But I also think it lasts a lot longer than regular shampoo because it's just like...

(00:34:15):
Just rub it real fast and then it suds up and then you're off to the races.

(00:34:19):
But...

(00:34:20):
I like that stuff.

(00:34:22):
I recommend it.

(00:34:22):
And then like bite toothpaste that works well too.

(00:34:27):
And it's even better for you supposedly than,

(00:34:29):
than the fluoride based stuff,

(00:34:31):
but there's no plastic tube to worry about.

(00:34:34):
Yeah.

(00:34:35):
They also have laundry detergent sheets.

(00:34:37):
I use those too.

(00:34:38):
And like when you start actually digging into some of these products,

(00:34:41):
you're like,

(00:34:42):
wow,

(00:34:42):
these are not only better for the environment,

(00:34:45):
but they're better for me too because they don't have as much chemicals and all of

(00:34:49):
this stuff.

(00:34:49):
So I just use like these laundry detergent sheets are unscented because the scents

(00:34:54):
and added chemicals are supposed to be bad.

(00:34:55):
They're on your skin all the time too.

(00:34:57):
And then I just put like essential oils in the laundry and then

(00:35:00):
smells like so good and yeah it's better for you better for the planet comes in

(00:35:04):
cardboard it's like a no-brainer you know for sure yeah the the the pods that

(00:35:10):
people buy that you throw in the washing machine they don't understand that that

(00:35:13):
pod itself is plastic

(00:35:15):
Yeah, the actual pod that dissolves in the laundry.

(00:35:21):
It's like that's turning into microplastics and you're breathing that in.

(00:35:25):
Or drinking it.

(00:35:26):
Or drinking it, yeah.

(00:35:27):
Or eating it if you eat fish.

(00:35:29):
Like all the fish these days have microplastics.

(00:35:32):
Yeah, well, I read a study.

(00:35:35):
It was about, I can't remember.

(00:35:39):
like nine out or eight out of 10 placentas that scientists tested from women had microplastics in them.

(00:35:48):
It's insane.

(00:35:50):
It's like, we have to change that.

(00:35:53):
And that's not, that's for our health too.

(00:35:55):
Not just the ocean.

(00:35:58):
And all this stuff has like forever cancer causing chemicals in it and stuff like that.

(00:36:03):
So really when we make these suggestions, it's just fascinating.

(00:36:07):
for ourselves as well as the planet as a whole.

(00:36:09):
Like we're all one here, you know, and it affects all of us.

(00:36:12):
So it's important to make those changes.

(00:36:16):
Yeah, absolutely.

(00:36:18):
Well,

(00:36:19):
I mean,

(00:36:19):
to kind of go into what your goal for Kaimana is,

(00:36:24):
I mean,

(00:36:26):
what overarching message do you want to send with the Kaimana Ocean Safari?

(00:36:32):
Well,

(00:36:32):
with Kaimana,

(00:36:33):
it's so exciting for me to be able to take people out there to do this because,

(00:36:38):
like I said,

(00:36:39):
I think the experience and actually getting out there is what inspires people to

(00:36:43):
make the changes that we're talking about and have these different perception changes.

(00:36:48):
In general,

(00:36:49):
people just tend to protect what they love,

(00:36:51):
what they understand,

(00:36:52):
what they experienced in their own life.

(00:36:54):
So getting to take people out there is really awesome.

(00:36:56):
And then while we're out there, we can talk to them about issues like this.

(00:37:00):
We can show them how we're contributing to our local research organizations.

(00:37:05):
We contribute by giving ID photos like the dorsal fins of cetaceans,

(00:37:09):
the dolphins,

(00:37:10):
the whales,

(00:37:11):
as well as the sharks to our local research organizations so they can study them better.

(00:37:15):
So every time somebody comes out with us,

(00:37:17):
they actually get to contribute to that research,

(00:37:19):
which is really exciting.

(00:37:22):
And yeah,

(00:37:22):
I want to continue to do that and continue to take people on trips in other parts

(00:37:27):
of the world as well,

(00:37:28):
because I think there's so much to see out there and combining my love of,

(00:37:33):
as we talked about in the beginning of the episode,

(00:37:35):
you know,

(00:37:35):
different cultures and different places around the world and kind of getting out of

(00:37:39):
your hometown and combining that with the love of the ocean and seeing the plight

(00:37:43):
of the ocean and ways that you can change it.

(00:37:45):
is like awesome.

(00:37:46):
So I'm running a lot of expeditions with my husband where we take people around the

(00:37:51):
world to go do these things.

(00:37:53):
We have a few spots left for our humpback whale expeditions this fall.

(00:37:58):
I'm going to start probably booking our shark diving expeditions in Mexico for March,

(00:38:03):
2025 and some more exciting things on the horizon as well.

(00:38:07):
So anybody can definitely reach out to me if that interests them.

(00:38:11):
For sure.

(00:38:12):
I'm, I am interested.

(00:38:14):
He's like, looks like, yes.

(00:38:15):
Can we do that?

(00:38:17):
Yeah.

(00:38:18):
Like March, 2025.

(00:38:18):
Maybe I was going to ask, are you ever going to do anything in the Florida area?

(00:38:24):
Yeah, actually there may be a reason that I'm coming to Florida in June, but I'm not sure yet.

(00:38:30):
I will definitely hit you guys up if that is.

(00:38:32):
Yes.

(00:38:33):
Yes.

(00:38:33):
Please do it.

(00:38:35):
Yeah.

(00:38:36):
I've been shark diving out there in Jupiter.

(00:38:38):
It's actually really fun.

(00:38:39):
Oh,

(00:38:41):
Yeah.

(00:38:43):
I would love to see you.

(00:38:45):
I would love to see me.

(00:38:46):
I don't know if she'd make it out.

(00:38:49):
No, Kay, talking to you, I can see it, right?

(00:38:53):
I know the shark's purpose.

(00:38:54):
I understand what the reason is behind the shark.

(00:38:57):
And even,

(00:38:58):
I guess being with someone like you,

(00:39:00):
Kay,

(00:39:01):
out on an excursion like that,

(00:39:03):
I feel like I could maybe...

(00:39:07):
Channel some of your calmness and try it.

(00:39:10):
Like, just experience it.

(00:39:12):
So I love talking to you about this.

(00:39:15):
This is something that I think one day we, Russ and Linz, will be on a Kaimana excursion.

(00:39:24):
We'll do this.

(00:39:25):
Well, and just to...

(00:39:28):
You don't just jump in, right?

(00:39:30):
You kind of like survey the sharks before, like make sure they're not in feeding zone.

(00:39:36):
She will keep us safe.

(00:39:37):
Right, right, right.

(00:39:38):
So it's not like you're just, all right, there's a shark.

(00:39:41):
Jump in.

(00:39:42):
You know, you push her into the water.

(00:39:46):
Yes, there's a lot that goes into it.

(00:39:49):
And we will definitely make sure that you guys are nice and safe.

(00:39:52):
But I definitely encourage people to go out and swim with sharks because I think

(00:39:56):
you can hear about it over and over and kind of like be beat over the head with

(00:39:59):
this information about sharks.

(00:40:01):
But until you see them for yourself, you're like, oh, now I get it.

(00:40:05):
You just,

(00:40:05):
yeah,

(00:40:06):
they just don't behave in that way that the media and the movies really hype it up,

(00:40:10):
you know?

(00:40:11):
For sure.

(00:40:12):
For sure.

(00:40:12):
And like you said, just seeing a shark swim next to a kayaker, a fisherman, it's not an attack.

(00:40:21):
You're in his house.

(00:40:23):
Right.

(00:40:23):
Yeah.

(00:40:23):
And if you're fishing, you have his food.

(00:40:26):
Right.

(00:40:26):
You just stole out of his pantry.

(00:40:27):
You stole my food, bro.

(00:40:29):
It's like, what would we do?

(00:40:31):
We would do the same thing.

(00:40:32):
Exactly.

(00:40:33):
Exactly.

(00:40:34):
There was a video that...

(00:40:36):
That was just posted on social media.

(00:40:38):
A lady was ziplining over.

(00:40:40):
It looked like the Everglades.

(00:40:41):
She was ziplining over a pond, and a gator popped his head out.

(00:40:45):
And I'm like, well, if somebody's screaming over top of your head, you'd pop your head out too.

(00:40:49):
What's going on?

(00:40:50):
Yeah.

(00:40:51):
It was the same thing.

(00:40:52):
I'm like, just leave the gator alone.

(00:40:54):
It didn't do nothing to you.

(00:40:56):
That makes sense.

(00:40:59):
Oh yeah.

(00:40:59):
Well, we ask every yes.

(00:41:00):
Okay.

(00:41:01):
And where you will be no exception.

(00:41:03):
Let's, let's hear the answer here.

(00:41:05):
If you won $10 million tonight, what's the first thing you would do tomorrow?

(00:41:10):
Oh my gosh.

(00:41:12):
Wow.

(00:41:12):
That is like, I mean, I'd probably just be doing the same thing cause I really enjoy what I do.

(00:41:17):
So I'm very lucky to have an answer like that.

(00:41:21):
Um,

(00:41:22):
And yeah, I would probably book my dream trip, which is to swim with orca in Norway.

(00:41:32):
It's very cold and it's very extreme, but I kind of like that stuff.

(00:41:36):
And they're like hunting the herring and things over there.

(00:41:39):
So I would want to go check that out.

(00:41:42):
Yeah.

(00:41:43):
Wow.

(00:41:44):
Orca is probably my favorite sea creature.

(00:41:47):
Soon to be shark.

(00:41:48):
Come March 2025.

(00:41:50):
I don't know what it is about orca, but they're so smart.

(00:41:55):
Right.

(00:41:56):
And they're sinking ships off of, what, in the Mediterranean and stuff?

(00:42:01):
Like, they're smart enough to sink a boat?

(00:42:04):
I know.

(00:42:05):
That's insane to me.

(00:42:07):
I got this orca sticker that has an orca on it, and it says, fuck them boats, and I was like,

(00:42:13):
yes i love that yes that's perfect yeah yeah but seriously i i see them and i you

(00:42:20):
there those are like majestic creatures to me just because of the the intelligence

(00:42:26):
you know absolutely yeah i really like predators so orcas are for sure up there and

(00:42:31):
i really want to go see them in that way and i'm sure one day i will so

(00:42:36):
Yeah, and they are like surgically precise when they eat sharks, right?

(00:42:42):
Don't they eat like the liver or something?

(00:42:45):
It's like a delicacy to the orca.

(00:42:47):
Yeah, I think it's what essentially has like the most nutritional value that they're after.

(00:42:53):
So they'll kill a whole animal and just eat their liver.

(00:42:57):
Right.

(00:43:00):
But how did they know?

(00:43:01):
How do they know to surgically remove that part, you know?

(00:43:05):
It's really fascinating.

(00:43:07):
Yeah.

(00:43:07):
Yeah.

(00:43:08):
Well, if you do ever get to go see the orcas, please let us know how it is.

(00:43:13):
It sounds cold.

(00:43:14):
Sorry.

(00:43:14):
I don't like cold.

(00:43:17):
I've heard it's very cold.

(00:43:20):
Well, okay.

(00:43:21):
Let them know where to find you.

(00:43:22):
Where can they find you on social media or your website or business?

(00:43:26):
All the places.

(00:43:27):
Yes.

(00:43:27):
All the places.

(00:43:28):
Yes.

(00:43:28):
Yeah.

(00:43:28):
Thanks for watching guys.

(00:43:31):
And you can find me on pretty much all the social media platforms at mermaid dot Kaylee.

(00:43:37):
And if you want to come dive with me, my website is Kaimana ocean safari.com.

(00:43:44):
And Kaimana just,

(00:43:45):
just so it's clear for people listening to audio and not having access to the show notes.

(00:43:50):
It's how do you spell that?

(00:43:52):
It's K A I M A N A.

(00:43:56):
Awesome.

(00:43:57):
Awesome.

(00:43:58):
Yeah.

(00:43:59):
Thanks so much.

(00:44:00):
I would highly recommend checking out Mermaid Kaylee's social media pages because they are awesome.

(00:44:06):
It's literally what we watch almost every night.

(00:44:09):
It's awesome.

(00:44:11):
Seriously, I can't stop.

(00:44:13):
I'm just like scrolling and scrolling and scrolling.

(00:44:15):
I'm like, I just wasted an hour watching shark videos.

(00:44:18):
Not wasted.

(00:44:19):
No, no, no.

(00:44:19):
You know what I'm saying.

(00:44:21):
It's all the fun.

(00:44:22):
Yes.

(00:44:22):
Thanks so much, Kay.

(00:44:24):
Thank you, guys.

(00:44:25):
Oh, yeah.

(00:44:25):
Thank you.

(00:44:29):
Thanks for listening to the Unfiltered Union.

(00:44:32):
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(00:44:33):
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(00:44:35):
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