This

is

Linds,

this

is

Russ,

and

we're

married.

Are

we?

Yup,

since

2013.

We're

the

hosts

of

the

Unfiltered

Union.

Podcast

where

we

discuss

popular

headlines

and

interview

interesting

people.

Our

opinions

may

vary,

but

we

will

never

censor

our

guests

or

our

viewpoints.

Welcome

to

the

Unfiltered

Union.

Another

one.

Oh,

you

did

it.

Anyway,

just

like

DJ

Khaled,

we

have

another

guest

and

we

are

so

excited

about

this

one.

I

am

going

to

be

a

total

noob

in

this

discussion.

So

once

again,

Russ

is

going

to

lead

this.

Yes,

I

will

try

my

best.

So

we

have

Chris

Ravis

on

the

show

today

and

we're

going

to

start

with

his

intro

and

we're

going

to

dive

into

something

near

and

dear

to

Russ

heart.

Let

me

tell

you

why.

So

Chris

has

an

expertise

in

making

complex

topics

easy

to

understand

by

a

variety

of

audiences.

In

this

case,

we're

going

to

be

demystifying

bitcoin

investing.

Yes.

To

date,

he

has

helped

over

80

investors

on

their

journeys

to

create

generations

generational

wealth

with

bitcoin.

None

of

them

were

tech

experts,

financial

gurus,

or

economists.

All

of

them

learned

a

ton

and

enjoy

a

positive

return.

So

again,

this

is

Russ's

true

blue.

All

the

things

that

he

loves.

So

we're

gonna

have

fun

with

this

one

today.

And

we

can't

thank

you

enough,

Chris,

for

coming

and

joining

us.

Oh,

it's

my

honor.

So

excited

to

be

here.

All

right,

let's

start

with.

Again,

I'm

gonna

be

the

noob

here.

So

I'm

gonna

ask

the

really,

I'm

just

going

to

say

dumb

questions.

Right.

These

are

someone

who

I

am

not

currently

in

that

world

and

investing

Russ

knows

way

more

than

I

do.

But

for

someone

who

knows

nothing

about

bitcoin,

how

would

you

define

it?

Yeah,

it's

actually

a

great

question.

And

there's

no

dumb

ones.

I'm

glad

you're

asking.

So

there's

a

couple

different

ways

to

think

about

it.

So

sometimes

people

quickly

will

answer.

Well,

bitcoin's

digital

gold

because

people

can

understand

what

gold

is.

Gold's

had

value

for

a

long

time

and

they

think

about

digital

gold.

Oh,

I

can

just

move

gold

on

the

Internet

from

peer

to

peer

and

that's,

it's

not

entirely

right,

but

that's

one

way

to

think

about

it.

The

more

academic

answer,

it's

a

peer

to

peer

currency,

if

you

will.

So

I

could

send

money

to

you

with

no

bank,

no

credit

card,

no

intermediary.

I

can

sit

it

on

Sunday

at

10am

in

my

pajamas,

playing

with

my

dog,

drinking

coffee

and

it

goes

through.

There's

no

three

day

wait.

There's

nothing

else

like

that.

But

it's,

it's

digital

money.

It's

incredibly

secure.

It's

the

most

secure

money

that

has

ever

existed

and

won't

go

too

much

in

the

weeds.

The

problem

with

bitcoin

is

it's

a

deep

well.

But

one

thing

that's

very

different

about

it,

it's

what's

called

a

hard

money.

So

it

means

it

will

not

devalue.

We're

used

to

inflation

being

a

normal

thing

and

just

kind

of

have

accepted

that.

Right.

But

bitcoin

is

what's

called

a

hard

money.

There's

only

a

certain

amount

of

currency

that

will

ever

exist

and

that's

a

totally

new

concept.

So

big

answer

to

your

question.

But

that's

what

bitcoin

is.

No,

I

appreciate

that.

I

mean

the

idea

of

the

gold

currency,

I

think

that's

a

great

way

to

put

it

because

you're

still

putting

a

dollar

value

on

gold.

Right?

Right.

I

like

that

a

lot.

I

think

when

we

start

thinking

about

bitcoin,

it

does

get

really

big

and

scary.

Sure.

Overall,

I

mean,

why

would

I

be

interested

in

this?

I

know

you're

saying

it's

a

hard

investment.

It

is

something

that

is.

You

can't

create

more

of

and

we

shouldn't

be

used

to

that.

So

why

should

I

be

interested

in

bitcoin?

I'm

going

to

flip

it

and

talk

about

the

villain

in

the

story.

So

we

don't

think

about

our

monetary

system

as

a

villain

and

we

don't

study

it

in

school

and

we

don't

know

about

it.

And

a

lot

of

people,

a

lot

of

us,

myself

included

earlier,

are

afraid

of

money.

We've

got

a

lot

of

fear

and

emotion

around

it.

But

if

I

talk

about

what's

called

a

fiat

system,

which

are

all

the

modern

currencies,

US

dollar,

euro,

all

of

them

are

what

are

called

fiat.

Just

a

fanc,

they're

not

based

on

anything.

So

since

1971,

we've

been

off

the

gold

standard.

The

US

dollar

is

literally

printed

out

of

thin

air

by

12

banks

and

the

Treasury.

During

COVID

we

increased

the

currency

almost

40%.

So

the

villainization

here

is

banks

and

others

are

continually

creating

more

currency

so

that

they

can

pay

off

debts,

so

that

they

can

sell

debt

products,

which

is

what

banks

sell.

And

it's

just,

it

creates

an

unsustainable

thing

for

our

families,

for

our

generations,

for

developing

nations.

It's

just.

I

can't

think

of

a

better

way

to

describe

it,

but

evil,

it's

kind

of

the

silent

evil

that's

There.

And

so

the

only

way

to

do.

To

do

that

is

to

get

rid

of

it

and

do

something

that's

based

on

not

countries,

not

companies,

not

human

beings,

that's

trustless,

that's

decentralized,

that's

incredibly

secure.

And

instead

of

just

creating

new

currency

all

the

time,

Bitcoin

doesn't

have

that.

So

if

you

think

of

the

simple

example,

I'll

give

really

quick,

long

answer

to

your

question

again,

sorry.

But

if

you

think

of

a

fraction

and

that

bottom

part

of

the

fraction,

say

you've

got

1/4

and

someone

just

decides

to

move

that

4

away

and

make

it

100.

So

now

your

currency

is

worth

1/100th

of

what

it

was

before.

Right.

And

that's

really

what's

happening.

That

denominator

is

constantly

changing,

and

your

buying

power

is

going

down.

We

experience

by

higher

prices.

Right.

And

we

blame

inflation,

we

blame

politicians,

which

are

really

a

sideshow.

But

it's.

The

currency

devaluation

is

sort

of

the

evil

one.

And

bitcoin's

the

only

way

I

know

out

of

that

long

term.

And

the

reason

I

get

excited

about

it

is

for

my

kids,

for

my

grandkids.

Hopefully

we

won't

experience

massive

devaluation

of

all

our

currencies

in

our

lifetime,

but

we

may.

And

it's

the

only

other

option

that's

really

out

there

in

my

mind,

that

exists.

Right.

If

you

tell

somebody

that

if

you

had

a

thousand

bucks

in

your

bank

and

you

left

that

thousand

dollars

there,

it

wouldn't

be

worth

a

thousand

bucks

as

it

was

back

then.

No.

But

if

you

did

a

thousand

bucks

in

Bitcoin

10

years

ago,

you

would

have

been.

You'd

be

living

a

totally

different

life

now.

You

will

not

let

me

live

that

down.

We'll

get

to

that

story

here

in

a

minute.

I

made

that

mistake

early,

too.

Yeah.

I

mean,

ultimately,

you

know,

I.

I

am

the

new.

But

obviously

Russ

is

more

involved.

But

I

hear

a

lot

of

things

about

altcoins.

I

hear

a

lot

of

things

about.

Sure.

Alternative

investments.

A

lot

of.

Even

our

friends

and

neighbors

mentioned

that

they

have

their

investments

in

the

stock

market.

They're

doing

well.

Why

should

I

even

consider

something

in

crypto?

So

what

would

you.

What

would

your

advice

be

to

them

for

bitcoin

versus

alternative

investments?

Yeah.

Well,

first

off,

I'm

not

a

qualified

investment

person

at

all.

But

what

I

would

say

to

them,

as

a

friend,

would

be,

look,

as

part

of

your

portfolio,

bitcoin

makes

a

ton

of

sense,

and

you

can't

ignore

it.

That's

my

first

thing

I

would

say.

The

other

is

I

would

take

time

to

kind

of

educate

them

on

what

altcoins

are

and

what

they

do.

So

where

they're

different

than

bitcoin

is

they

almost

always

have

a

venture

capital

firm

or

a

CEO

behind

them.

They're

centralized,

which

is

the

same

problem

we

have

with

the

US

dollar

that

I

just

talked

about.

And

they

kind

of

have

these

pump

and

dump

schemes.

So

they'll

get

the

money

high

or

the

valuation

high,

then

the

VC

takes

their

money,

the

venture

capital

company

takes

their

money

and

then

it

dumps.

So

it's

not

a

good

long

term

store

of

value.

Hardcore

bitcoiners

have

some

derogatory

words

to

say

about

altcoins.

There's

what,

25,000

of

them.

And

I

mean

it's

just

kind

of

absurd.

And

I

think

bitcoiners

get

upset

because

they

get

group

with

it.

Right,

your

group

with

the.

Not

the

gross

stuff.

Now

in

regards

to

the

stock

market,

you

know,

honestly

a

lot

of

our

Portfolios

and

our

401ks

and

IRAs

are

in

stock.

So

that

doesn't

mean

that

they're

evil

or

wrong.

And

I

wouldn't

suggest

everyone

put

all

of

their

money

in

bitcoin,

other

folks

would.

But

you

know,

a

1,

2,

3,

4,

5%

of

what

you're

investing

to

put

and

hold

that

in

bitcoin

long

term

is

going

to

probably

outdo

the

other

95%.

Right.

Over

time

it's

just

as

you

get

into

it

and

no

more.

It's

just

math

and

it's

just

an

algorithm

and

there's

no

sure

thing

in

life.

But

like

on

a

long

term

basis,

on

a

10

year,

20

year

basis,

you're

going

to

do

incredibly

well

on

bitcoin.

So

I

wouldn't

throw

all

the

other

stocks

away.

I

would

stay

away

from

altcoins.

You

know,

a

lot

of

people

jokingly

call

it

like

a

casino

and

the

house

always

wins.

Oh

for

sure.

I

mean

it's

just

a

waste

of

energy.

Absolutely,

I

agree

with

you

on

that.

And

a

lot

of

those

altcoins,

they

tend

to

have

pre

mints

which

they

enrich

their

buddies.

Right.

And

then

they

sell

it

to

us

as

the

non

insiders

and

then

all

of

a

sudden

we're

buying

it

up,

they

have

millions

of

them

and

that's

where

the

dump

comes

from.

Yeah,

it's

Ponzi

scheme.

Right?

100%.

And

that's

what

cracks

me

up

is

a

lot

of

these

news

agencies

and

things

of

that

nature,

they

end

up

saying

that

no,

bitcoin's

Ponzi

scheme.

I'm

like

how?

Right?

There's

nothing,

there's

no

benefit

to

me,

owning

more

bitcoin,

like

a

proof

of

stake

system.

Right.

There's

a

benefit

there

for

Joe

Schmo,

who

was

in

on

the,

the,

the

minting

of

said

coin,

you

know,

and,

and

they've

got

10

million

of

them

now.

They

got

huge

control

over

consensus

and

all

that.

Right.

So

speaking

of

proof

of

stake.

Yeah,

yeah.

How,

how

are

more

bitcoin

created?

Yeah.

So

bitcoin

are

mined

and

I'll

explain

what

that

means

in

a

second.

But

there's

two

things

that,

that

happen

with

mining

and

also

nodes

there,

they

often

get

glum

together

as

two

different

things.

So

nodes

are

actually

bitcoin

nodes

run

all

over

the

world.

There's

hundreds

of

thousands

of

them,

probably

even

a

million

at

this

point.

They're

free

to

stand

up,

totally

decentralized.

And

that's

what

guarantees.

Like

a

transaction

goes

through

or

validates

each

block.

And

a

block

is

something

that

happens

every

10

minutes.

You

can

think

of

it.

I'm

going

to

say

it

a

little

bit

wrong.

In

hardcore

bitcoiners,

you

can

scream

at

me,

but

think

of

it

as

a

package.

And

in

that

package

are

some

new

bitcoin

and

some

transactions

wrapped

up

in

a

nice

big

honking

algorithm

that's

very

secure.

So

every

10

minutes,

one

of

these

things

is

created.

Right.

Now,

every

10

minutes

it's

6.25

bitcoin,

or

easy

way

to

think

of

it's

900

bitcoin

a

day.

Every

four

years,

that

number

goes

in

half.

So

here

in

about

a

month

in

April

24,

that'll

go

to

450

a

day.

And

it

just

goes,

gets

smaller

and

smaller

because

that's

how

the

algorithm

works

now,

the

way

miners

work.

There's,

I

think,

almost

7

million

miners

that

we

know

about

on

the

blockchain

today.

They're

literally,

most

of

them

are

asics,

which

think

of

like

a

shoebox

with

two

fans

in

it

and

computer

in

the

middle.

That's

all

it

is.

It's

not

like

a

CO2

producing

machine

or

something

big,

elaborate.

It's

a

really

simple

machine

that

it's

doing

math.

Now,

people

will

say

it's

solving

a

hard

math

problem

that's

not

totally

accurate,

but

it's

finding

very,

very,

very

big

prime

numbers

where

the

next

block

is.

It's

competing

to

create

that

package

that

I

talked

about,

right?

So

it's

got

some

transactions

in

it

and

some

new

Bitcoin.

And

if

it

is

successfully

able

to

create

that

package

and

put

it

on

the

network

and

validate,

it's

paid

by

bitcoin.

So

the

miners

themselves

are

paid

by

Bitcoin,

there's

millions

of

them

competing

to

get

at

that.

And

usually

I

have

visuals

to

show

that

because

it's

a

lot

at

once.

But

there's

just

large

compute

farms

all

over

the

world

that

are

competing

to

win

that

block

every

10

minutes

and

get

paid

in

bitcoin

for

that

block.

Well,

I

want

to

kind

of

harp

on

this

because

we

said

that

inflation

isn't

a

thing,

right?

It's

not

a

thing

with

bitcoin.

But

if

more

can

be

created,

then

isn't

that

a

contradictory

statement?

It's

a

great

question.

Yeah.

So

there's

a

max

count

of

bitcoin

that

can

ever

be

created

of

21

million.

It's

hard

coded

in

everything.

It's

in

all

the

blocks,

it's

in

all

the

nodes.

If

you

were

to

change

that,

the

nodes

would

reject

it

and

it

wouldn't

work.

So

it's

really

hard

coded

in

the

algorithm.

People

will

go,

oh,

you

create

more.

You

can't.

I

mean,

unless

there's

a

massive

code

change

and

6

million

miners

and

all

the,

all

the

validators.

Agreed.

So

there's

only

21

million.

Not

all

of

them

have

been

created

yet,

though.

And

so

there

are

900

created

a

day.

Soon

it'll

be

450

a

day

and

eventually

becomes

a

really

small

number

until

it

reaches

that

21

million.

So

in

circulation

today,

roughly

19

million.

Another

2

million

ish

will

be

generated

over

the

next

hundred

years.

Now,

the

good

news

about

it,

bitcoin

is

divisible,

like

to

a

million

zeros

out.

We're

also

not

used

to

that.

So

in

time

we'll

talk

about

satoshis

instead

of

bitcoin.

So

a

decimal

point

out

there,

right?

So

there's

plenty

of

bitcoin

to

go

around

for

our

8

billion

on

the

planet,

but

there

only

will

ever

be

21

million.

Does

that

answer

your

question?

I

know

it's

a

lot

of

info

at

once.

No,

for

sure.

Again,

Russ

knows

all

this

stuff,

and

as

far

as

he

said

it

to

me

a

million

times.

So

you're

just

reaffirming

it

for

me

and

making

it

make

more

sense.

I

love

my

husband,

but

goodness

gracious.

My

wife's

the

same

way.

She

don't

want

to

listen

to

me.

No,

I

understand.

Well,

in

that

21

million,

you

also

have

to

factor

in

lost

bitcoin

as

well,

which

I

think

the

creator

Satoshi

did

say

that

you

can

think

of

lost

bitcoin

as

a

donation

to

the

entire

network

because

it

makes

ours.

If

you

own

bitcoin,

yeah,

it

makes

it

worth

more

because

now

there's

less

than

21

million.

Right.

But

I

did,

I

did

want

to

kind

of

name

what

that

method

is,

though.

It's

mining,

but

it's

also

called

proof

of

work.

It

is,

yeah.

So.

So

most

of

these

altcoins,

they

do

proof

of

stake,

which

means

you

have

more.

That

means

you

have

more

control

over

the

rules

that

are

created

and

things

of

that

nature.

Proof

of

work

is,

in

my

opinion.

Well,

yes,

it's

far

more

secure.

It's

far

more

secure

and

it's

way

more

decentralized.

Absolutely.

I

need

Chris

to

repeat

that

whole

statement

you

just

said

because

I

didn't

hear

you.

No,

I'm

so

glad

you

brought

it

up.

So

there's

a

difference

between

what's

called

proof

of

work

and

proof

of

stake.

And

you

said

it.

Great.

The

other

thing

that

I

would

add

to

proof

of

work

is

you

can

think

of

the

value

of

Bitcoin

is

the

energy

it

takes

to

create

it.

There's

literally

some

electricity

and

some

math

that

was

solved

and

that

gives

it

intrinsic

value.

Right.

You

can

also

think

of

digital

energy.

If

you

were

proof

of

stake

is

instead

of

all

these

miners

competing

and

doing

math

and

being

decentralized,

someone's

holding

a

big

bunch

of

it

and

they're

using

that

for

the

math.

And

that

is

really,

from

an

ex

hacker

perspective,

really

flipping

easy

to

hack.

Right.

I

know

which

point

to

attack.

I

know

how

I

can

fake

it.

I

can

do

denial

of

service.

I

mean,

all

those

nefarious

things

that

bad

actors

can

do.

I

was

an

ethical

hacker.

But

all

those

bad

things

people

can

do,

it

makes

it

really

easy

to

do.

And

that's

where

you

see

these

attacks

and

exploits

and

stuff

are

stolen

because

you

know

where

to

go,

right.

You

know

that

an

insurance

company

has

lots

of

health

data,

right?

You

know

what,

a

credit

card

company

has

lots

of

credit.

So

attackers

know

where

to

go

with

proof

of

stake.

It's

the

same

thing.

There's

a

dozen

big

holders

of

Ethereum

or

these

other

alts.

You

know

exactly

where

to

go.

You

can,

you

can

fake

them

and

everything

else.

And

then

it's

again,

we

have

the

same

problem.

Us

as

humans

should

really

not

control

money.

It

should

be

decentralized

because

every

time

we

touch

it,

we

kind

of

eff

it

up

a

lot.

Right?

Greed

gets

in

and

all

of

our

human

stuff,

we

screw

it

up

and

pretty

bad.

So

that's

another

reason

it's

kind

of

an

emotional

thing

and

it's

a

human

thing.

But

it's

like

we're

not

great

with

running

financial

systems

as

human

beings.

Right.

It

just

tends

to.

Bad

things

happen

eventually

and

that's

another

reason

I

think

proof

of

work's

way

better

and

the

decentralization

is

better

because

it's,

it's

trustless.

We

don't

have

to

be

involved

in

it.

Yeah.

And

even

besides

the

hacking

point,

if

those

12

individuals

that

own,

you

know,

the

most

of

whatever

altcoin,

they

can

say,

you

know

what,

I

want

to

print

more.

Right,

Absolutely.

And

that's

so

everybody

that

bought

into

that

system

now,

they're.

Their

stuff

is

now

going

to

be

devalued,

just

like

our

US

dollar

because.

Right.

The

bottom

of

the

fraction

changes

and.

Yeah.

And

you're

hosed.

Yeah.

And

it

never

goes

the

other

way.

Isn't

that

funny?

It

never.

Right.

Yeah.

But

I

like

what

you

said

where

people

shouldn't

control

money.

And

that's

the

beauty

of

this

bitcoin

is

because

it's

everywhere.

And

I

want

to

kind

of

make

the

point

that

nodes

are

essentially

the

rule

setters.

Right.

And

those

are

super

cheap

to

run.

Yeah.

I,

you

can

go

buy

a

Raspberry

PI

on

Amazon

or

whatever.

They're

kind

of

expensive

now

because

of,

you

know,

the

supply

issues

with

those,

but

you

can

get

those

usually

for

like

a

hundred

bucks

and

then

run

a

node

and

you're

part

of

the

network

making

sure

rules

are

being

set

and

followed.

Totally.

I

would

recommend

running

one.

I

run

one.

Yeah.

Get

your

old

PC

and

put

Linux

on

it

and

download

it

and

away

you

go.

Yeah.

I

mean,

it

takes

a

couple

days

for

it

to

get

the

whole

network.

Yeah.

The

initial

fun

too,

right?

Exactly.

For

us

geeks,

it's

fun,

it's

a

learning

experience.

But

I

mean,

you're

part

of

a

decentralized

currency

that

I

do

believe

will

change

the

world

for

the

better.

For

sure.

Exactly.

To

kind

of

compound

on

that

though,

when

you

say

that

you

can

get

a

raspberry,

anybody

can

get

a

Raspberry

PI.

Right.

And

we're

saying

that

security

is

so

high.

Well,

if

anybody

can

get

in

it,

get

involved,

then

how,

how,

how

is

it

secure?

Yeah,

yeah,

yeah.

Killer

question.

So

part

of

the

rule

set

is

there's

a

large

number

of

validation.

So

if

I

got

a

Raspberry

PI

and

I

was

a

bad

actor

and

I

was

doing

bad

things,

the

rest

of

the

network

would

give

me

the

middle

finger.

Right.

And

it

would

shut

me

off.

So

between

both

the

nodes

and

the

miners,

there's

a

set

of

rules

that

this

is

how

we

abide

by.

And

what's

really

cool,

Bitcoin

does

have

a

blockchain.

Blockchain

has

a

bad

name

in

bitcoin

world.

But

it

is

based

on

blockchain

check.

There's

an

order

to

it.

Right.

So,

1,

2,

3,

4,

5.

If

4

doesn't

exist

in

your

blockchain

and

try

to

hose

it,

you're

also

hosed.

So

there's

this

nice

length

of.

I'm

not

a

mathematician,

so

I

won't

say

it

well,

but

there's

a

strand

there

that

has

to

be

there

for

this

to

work.

So

if

you

introduce

a

Raspberry

PI

in

your

own

code,

you

try

to

hose

it,

and

you

change

your

number

four,

the

network's

going

to

reject

it.

So,

yeah,

that.

That's

what's

really

cool,

is

there's

this

decentralized

network

that

validates

every

single

transaction.

So

if

I

buy

and

send

you

money,

I

don't

need

a

third

party

or,

you

know,

title

company

for

anything.

I

just

send

it

to

you.

And

the

nodes

in

the

network

guarantee

that

it's

a

legitimate

transaction

or

it's

not.

Right.

But

you're

downloading

the

core

source

code.

And

the

other

part

is

the

source

code's

all

visible,

so

you

can

see

if

you're

a

coder

or

Noah

Coder.

You

can

see

exactly

what's

in

it.

I

mean,

there's

no.

It's

totally

transparent,

you

know,

unlike

a

bank.

Like,

show

me

your

ledger.

They're

not

going

to.

They

can't.

Right.

Or

politician,

show

me

your

bank

account.

It's

all

there

to

see,

which

is.

It's

a

little

overwhelming.

Right?

Yeah,

sure.

Now

you

don't

know

who

the

people

are

on

the

other

side.

There's

some

anonymity

there,

like,

I

don't

know,

Bitcoin

address

this

and

bitcoin

address

that

is,

you

know,

Russ

and

Chris.

But

I

do

see

that

ledger

and

that

this

transaction

happened.

So

it's

this

nice

combination

of

anonymity

and,

like,

full

transparency.

Yeah.

Well.

And

I

think

that's

probably

another

barrier

to

entry

for

a

lot

of

people

is

the

bad

press

that

bitcoin

can

receive

because

of

those

bad

actors

who

are

anonymous

and

they're

really

just

taking

everything

from

people.

Sure.

I

mean,

how.

How

do

you

feel

that

people

could

guard

themselves

if

they

were

involved

in

bitcoin?

So

it's

really

interesting.

And

you

write.

It

gets

brought

up

a

lot.

Elizabeth

Warren

and

others

talk

about,

like,

you

know,

child

abduction

and

all

these.

Right.

All

the

bad,

scary

things

get

put

in.

The

reality

is

bitcoin

and

even

the

altcoins

are

an

awfully

bad

way

to

do

crime

because

there's

a

full

blockchain

to

find

you.

So

there's.

There's

lots

of

Examples

of

the

US

government

finding

people

really

quickly

that

were

dumb

enough

to

use

bitcoin

to

do

bad

things

because

there's

a

whole

thing

versus,

you

know,

a

stack

of

cash.

That's

a

lot

better.

Right?

Here's

the

cash.

And

yeah,

that's

what

cracks

me

up

about

politicians

dogging

bitcoin

for

being

used

for

crime.

It's

like,

how

much

US

dollar

is

every

day

being

used

for

drug

deals

printed.

Yeah,

yeah,

that's

a

crime

in

itself.

You're

stealing

from

me.

No,

no.

100%.

Yeah.

So,

but

I

mean,

those

news

stories

are

there.

It's

important

to

just,

I

think,

hear

the

person

out

and

hear

their

fear

out.

Because

if

I

go

right

back

at

them,

hey,

you're

wrong.

Like,

that's

not

good.

So,

okay,

I

understand

you're

nervous.

I

understand

you're

afraid.

That

makes

sense.

Let

me

explain

to

you

how

this

works.

You

know,

it's.

It's

so

much

more

secure

than.

And

safer

than.

Than

cash,

for

sure.

But

also,

if

you

think

about

like

a

venmo

or

a

PayPal

or

all

those

things,

or

if

you've

ever

had

a

bank,

like,

hold

your

funds

for

three

days

just

because,

you

know,

it

takes

that

long

to

clear,

I'm

like,

It

clears

in

20

minutes,

right?

The.

The

money

moves

in

the

backend

network

swift

between

banks

in

20

minutes.

It

doesn't

take

three

days,

you

know,

so

I

think

that's

just

the

time

thing.

People

getting

comfortable

with

it

and

understanding.

I

think

going

to

bitcoin

events

and

seeing,

like,

that's

what

really

changed

me.

I

was

an

altcort

and

bitcoin

until

I

started

going

to

events.

And

I

saw

the

caliber

of

people

that

like,

really

cared.

It's

not

about

money

for

most

bitcoiners.

They

actually

want

to

change

the

world.

Yes.

And,

and

we're

altruistic

and

maybe

stupid

enough

to

think

we

can

do

it,

but

there's

hardcore

economists

and

others

that

are

in

the

bitcoin

space.

If

you

go

to

the

altcoin

ones

or

even

like

a

company

annual

event,

it's

all

hype

and

money

and

let's

get

rich

quick.

And

it's

like

that

kind

of

noise.

And

after

a

while,

you

get

tired

of

that.

Yeah,

Bitcoin

is

different

that

way.

I

think

there

are

going

to

be

some

people

that

will

just,

you

know,

it's.

It's

early.

It's

like

the

Internet,

when

it

first

came

out,

folks

like,

what

is

that?

It's

crap.

Or,

you

know,

and

when

texting

came

out,

it

was

big

in

Japan

and

not

here.

I'm

like,

why

are

people,

like,

typing

on

their

phones?

That

makes

no

sense,

right?

It's,

it's

all

catches

on

in

time

and

there'll

be

early

adapters,

you

know,

which.

We're

still

in

that

spot.

Yeah.

You

said

we're

still

early.

Yeah.

Oh,

yeah.

This

is

the

problem

that

I

have

with

trying

to,

I

don't,

I'm

not

going

to

say

convert,

but

push

people

towards

investing

into

bitcoin.

Oh,

it's

too

expensive.

It's

$60,000

per

coin.

And

I'm

like.

But

that's

not.

You're,

you're

looking

at

it

as

a

US

dollar

thing,

right?

That's

not

the,

that

don't

do

that.

And

it's

so

hard

to

break

people

of

that.

And

I

mean,

I

get

it.

We've

been

on

that

US

dollar

forever

now,

right?

But

I'm,

I'm

trying

so

hard.

And

how

do

you

kind

of

deal

with

telling

people,

like,

look,

it's

early.

Yeah,

it

looks

like

a

lot.

And

it.

And

it

is.

I

mean,

if

you

want

to

get

your,

you

want

to

be

a

whole

coiner

or

whatever,

it's

a

lot

for

sure.

Right?

But

how

do

you

kind

of

bring

people

back

and

kind

of

like,

explain.

Yeah,

look,

it's

not

about

that

US

dollar

number

right

now.

And

the

upside

of

this

is

going

to

be

massive.

I

wish

I

was

more

successful

because

it

seemed

to

be

only

a

certain

percentage,

like,

want

to

get

it

right.

I've

used

Legos.

I've

literally

put

21

Legos

out

there.

And

like,

let

me

explain,

you

know,

And

I've

done

like

the

really

simple

supply

and

demand

drawing.

Like,

there's

only

ever

21

million

now

we've

got

Blackrock

and

Fidelity

buying

a

billion

dollars

of

bitcoin

a

day.

You

know,

just

doing

like,

it's.

We're

only

making

900

and

they're

buying,

which

I

don't

know

what

900

times

70

is.

What's

that,

6,63

million,

something

like

that

a

day.

And

they're

buying

a

billion

a

day.

Right?

So

it's

just

supply

and

demand,

right?

It's

going

to

go

up.

So

folks

get

that.

I

think

also

if

I

talk

about

generational

wealth.

And

the

nice

part

about

bitcoin

in

some

ways

is

it's

not

a

method

of

exchange

yet

we're

not

using

it

for

everyday

products.

If

we're

just

being

honest

about,

you

could.

But

it's

not

there.

It's

a

lot

easier.

Like

a

401k.

It's

a

lot

easier

to

park

it

and

like,

not

look

at

it

and

not

try

to

spend

it.

Right.

And

that

sounds

weird,

but

the

fact

that

it's.

You

buy

it

and

hold

it

is

a

really

good

thing

and

a

lot

of

people

resonate

with

that.

But

you

know,

honestly,

I

would

say

5

to

10%

of

all

my

normie

friends

take

action.

And

the

others

that

might

roll

their

eyes

at

me

or

might

get

it

later,

maybe

I

planted

a

seed

and

it's

going

to

come

later

and

just

keep

going

because

I'm

not

going

to

convert

everyone.

Right?

For

sure.

But

it's.

I

can't

just

stand

by

at

the

same

time

with

my

friends

and

like

not

say

it.

Like,

I

would

feel

awful

for

not

like

telling

them.

You

know,

there's

posts

on

my

Facebook

of

stuff

almost

every

week

of.

And

not

investment

advice,

but

just,

you

know,

do

you

want,

do

you

want

healthcare

to

change?

Do

you

want

the

things

that

aren't

money?

If

we

talk

about

those,

that's

what

resonates

with

people

more,

right?

Do

you

want

us

not

to

be

at

war

all

the

time?

Do

you

want

these

things

in

your

life,

which

everyone's

like,

yes.

I'm

like,

okay,

the

money

system's

a

little

broken.

Go

look

at

that.

And

then

here's

an

option

to

tweak

that.

Right.

So

this

is

kind

of

a

cool

little

segue.

Why

do

you

think

bitcoin

would

help

with

war?

Yeah.

I

am

not

a

defense

expert

and

I

have

a

huge

love

and

respect

for

our

veterans

and

all.

Absolutely.

Our

country.

Right.

But

I

wish

we

never

had

to

put

them

in

frickin

harm's

way

in

the

first

place.

Right?

In

this

day

and

age,

it's

not

World

War

II,

we're

not

being

invaded.

So

in

my

opinion,

the

value

of

the

US

dollar

comes

from

our

ability

to

defend

ourselves.

Right.

In

our

military

budget.

Right.

The

other

part

that's

kind

of

the

villain

that

we're

not

talking

about

is

when

we

devalue

the

US

dollar,

we

made

agreements

with

Saudi

Arabia

and

others

that

all

oil

exchanges

on

the

planet

have

to

be

done

in

US

dollar,

which

makes

everyone

have

to

hold

the

US

dollar,

which

in

a

weird,

bizarre

way,

one,

it

makes

every

country

angry

with

you

because

we

keep

devaluating

like

you

talked

about,

right.

You've

just

devalued

their

debt

with

you

and

their

method

of

exchange.

But

it's

also,

we've

got

this

constant.

Since

it's

not

based

on

a

hard

asset

like

gold

or

bitcoin.

Not

that

gold's

totally

hard,

but

it's

harder

than

fiat.

We

got

to

constantly

defend

it

and

be

the

strongest

country.

That's

the

only

really

Value

behind

the

US

Dollar

is

our

ability

to

stay

strong

as

a

country.

That's

where

it

comes

from.

Right.

Next

it

would

go

to

China

or

Russia

after

that.

So,

yeah,

in

my

opinion,

if

you

had

Bitcoin

and

it's

not

controlled

by

a

government,

which

would

be

really

bizarre

for

us

because

we're

used

to

dollar

and

euro

on

that.

But

if

you

had

a

currency,

it

didn't

matter

what

country

you're

in,

it

flips

the

power

structure.

Like,

you

know,

you

don't

need

to

have

a

massive

military

necessarily,

because

we're

all

spending

the

same

money,

you

know,

one

way

or

the

other,

and

it

changes

the

priorities.

Like,

okay,

proof

of

work.

Like,

we

do

a

lot

of

proof

of

stake

things

in

our

normie

life,

right.

We

hope

that

home

prices

just

keep

going

up

and

we

make

money

off

that.

We're

not

doing

work

for

that.

There's

no.

There's

no

work

or

effort.

But

we're

valuing

this

increase.

And

folks

that

can

flip

lots

of

houses

and

do

lots

of

Airbnbs,

they

make

lots

of

money

and

not

trying

to

villainize

them,

but

that's

not

really

proof

of

work.

That's

more

of

a

proof

of

stake

thing

versus

what

if

we

valued,

like,

you

know,

the

farmers

and

the

producers

and

people

that

create

things

of

value.

It

would

flip,

like,

our

value

system.

Right.

And

how

we

treat

people

and

everything

else.

So

I

think

that's

a

long

answer

to

your

question.

I

don't

have,

like

a

super

succinct

one.

I'm

not

like

a

Jeff

Booth

or

those

guys,

but.

But

I.

I

think

once

you

take

the

money

out

of

it.

I

mean,

I

joke

about

this.

In

the

Middle

east,

we

we

spent

all

this

money

on

oil.

If

you

took

all

that

money

out

of

the

Middle

East,

I

think

we'd

see

something

different.

Right?

I

mean.

Right.

It

changes

the

problem.

So.

And

again,

I.

I

am

not

against

anyone

that

serves.

I

have

huge,

like,

respect

for

those

people,

but

I

just

wish

we

didn't

have

to

put

them

in

harm's

way

so

much.

It

just.

Absolutely.

It's

just

a

waste

of

talent.

For

sure.

That's.

That's

nuts.

What

you

just

said

really

hit

me.

Like,

the

idea

of

the

way

of

old.

Right.

The

old

way

to

invest

is

real

estate,

like

trying

to

write

people

make

money

off

of

real

estate.

And

that

is

something

that

people

talk

about

all

the

time,

Right?

Like,

if

you

flip

it

on

its

head

and

put

in

Bitcoin,

the

idea

of

utilizing

that

in

agriculture.

Right.

Wow.

Right.

Yeah.

It

creates

abundance.

Right.

So

the

prices

actually,

what's

really

weird

Is

we

have

all

of

this.

And

other

smart

people

have

said

this

to

me

and

I've

just

taken

it

in.

So

we

have

all

this

incredible

technology

to

mass

produce

things.

Why

are

prices

going

down?

Like,

why

aren't

we

paying

less

for

lettuce

or

less

for

consumables

and

oil?

We're

paying

more.

It

makes

zero

sense.

And

it's

because

we're

devaluing

that

dollar,

devaluing

the

currency.

Right,

right.

And

if

the

currency

is.

Is

increasing

in

value,

you

know,

or

it's

scarce,

where

there's

less

of

it,

then.

Then

it

creates

abundance

because

things

are

actually

priced

less,

which

it

takes

a

while.

I

still,

My

brain

still

goes

what?

It

breaks

my

brain

if,

you

know,

let's

pretend

that

we

could

all

have

good

lives

and

be

healthy.

It's

not

that

we're

going

to

be

poor.

That's

not

what

it

means.

But

if

things

were

abundant,

I'm

like,

well,

that

would

solve

a

lot

of

problems.

Exactly,

exactly.

Yeah.

And

we

valued

effort

and

work

that

people

put

towards

something

regardless

of

who

they

are

or

where

they

are

or

what

country

they're

in,

that

flips

a

lot

of

things

on

its

head.

So,

yeah,

that's

one

of

the

reasons

I'm

behind

Bitcoin.

It's

not

just

like

a

geeky,

fun

thing,

but

as

I

get

deeper

into

it

and

learn

more

and

like,

this

really

has

capacity

to

change

a

lot

of

things.

Yeah.

I

mean,

making

people

mad

at

you

because

you

are

printing

US

Dollars

out

of

thin

air

when

it's

essentially

the

world's

reserve

currency.

Right,

right.

For

now,

of

course

they're

going

to

get

mad

at

you.

They're

holding

billions.

Who

knows

how

much?

And

holding

our

debt

in

34

trillion.

Right,

exactly.

And

it's

less

and

less.

And

I

did

read

somewhere

that

we

are

purposefully

devaluing

it.

Debt

number

is

technically

a

lot

less.

Yeah,

I'll

get

the

numbers

wrong,

but

it's

roughly

like

this.

Our.

Our

federal

budget,

let's

call

it

2

trillion

a

year.

The

number's

wrong,

but

we

only

have

like

1

trillion

to

pay

it.

So

we

print

another

trillion

so

that

we

can

run

our.

Run

our

government.

Right.

Just

like

what

funny

money.

Make

it

up.

Right.

And

bitcoin's

a

problem.

Yeah,

right,

Exactly.

Exactly.

So

deep

and

more

than

most

people

go

into.

And

we're

not

talking

taught

about

money

in

elementary

school

in

any

way,

shape

or

form.

Right,

right.

Yeah.

Right.

Here's

a

credit

card.

We

give

credit

cards

out,

but

that's

about

it.

Yeah.

And

just

bury

yourself

in

debt.

Right.

Because

that's

how

the

banks

make

money

and

they

run

the

country.

Yeah,

exactly,

exactly.

So

you

did

say

a

couple

of

things

about

digital

energy.

What

do

you

have

to

say

to

the

naysayers

about

that?

The

bitcoin

and

its

energy

footprint?

Totally.

I

think

that's

a

bunch

of

crap

because

if

you

pull

in

the

data

and

you

look

and

see

how

much

energy

Visa,

Capital

One,

American

Express,

these

huge

high

rise

buildings

that

have

thousands

of

employees

that

are

sitting

in

there

day

in

and

day

out,

I

bet

you

their

energy

footprints

way

up

there

versus

bitcoin.

Yeah,

no,

you

hit

the

nail

on

the

head.

The

the

site

I

love

to

use,

there's

a

study

done

by

Cambridge,

so

Cambridge

University,

England,

super

renowned

legit

university,

has

done

a

study

that

I

think

is

the

most

non

biased

one.

It's

always

updated.

That

shows

all

the

energy

in

the

world

and

it's

pretty

close.

I'd

say

within

5%

of

the

Bitcoin

energy

usage

it's

at

right

now

globally

0.6%

of

the

total

energy

usage.

So

I

would

argue

99.4%

might

be

the

problem

we

want

to

go

after,

not

the

0.6.

But

that

aside,

anecdotally,

we

don't

get

concerned

about.

I

have

an

electric

car.

We

don't

get

concerned

about

plugging

in

electric

cars.

And

that

hit

on

the

grid,

that's

a

popular

thing

because

it

reduces

CO2

and

it's

culturally

popular

right

now.

And

bitcoin's

a

little

unknown.

It

probably

uses

a

little

more

energy.

It's

around

20

trillion

watts

per

hour

a

year

for

all

the

Teslas

plugged

in

the

US

and

we're

probably

at