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The Unfiltered Union Podcast.

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All right.

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Florida, as Taylor Swift would say.

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Oh, you're getting copyright infringement.

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We are, well, we are in Florida.

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We are in the Tampa Bay area.

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We love all things ocean.

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I am Linz.

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And I am Russ.

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And I like fishing and boating.

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And not so much the beach.

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There's too much sand that gets everywhere, but.

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Mostly I like the ocean.

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Agreed.

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And I think one of the best things about Florida is it is so rounded by ocean.

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Yes.

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You walk out your front door and there is water.

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But recently we went to SeaWorld.

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We did.

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We took Kiddo up there.

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And there has been a whole new exhibit related to the coral reef and rehabilitation.

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So doing kind of like a deep dive into Instagram, we found Summer Collins.

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Yes.

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Hi, Summer.

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So as a coral biologist and a background in microplastic research and sea turtle rehabilitation,

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your content on Instagram really called to us.

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Let's talk.

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Thank you.

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I try my best.

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I have a lot of fun with it.

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Oh, yeah.

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Well, we appreciate it.

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For sure.

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I mean,

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let's start at the beginning,

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Summer,

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with your background,

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and we're going to dive into some more of the ocean aspects.

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So what started your interest in marine biology?

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So I'm from Florida, born and raised.

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I grew up in the Sarasota area, actually, and there's a local aquarium there.

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And my mom really like fed into my brother and I's interests a little too much, probably.

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So every weekend we went to that aquarium, we remember passes.

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And then that turned into my parents buying a boat because my dad also is an avid fisherman.

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He hates fish, though, but just likes catching them.

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I don't know.

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And then after that, it just kind of kept spiraling.

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I've always been drawn to the ocean.

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And I wanted to just share my love for it.

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And then I was talking to a FWC officer,

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actually,

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and I was like nine standing on the docks being like,

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oh,

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that's barnacles.

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This is the tide.

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And he's like, you're going places, kid.

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So he handed me a bunch of posters that had like all these identifications of fish species on it.

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And that was my first glimpse into kind of more of the scientific area.

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scientific aspects of using like graphic design into science.

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So then it went into like encyclopedias and then it was Steve Irwin and it just kept spiraling.

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And then, um,

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Outside of that, too, the back of my neighborhood was all non-developed land.

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But it was really tore up a lot because it was in the process of being developed.

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And Florida used to be completely underwater.

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So there's fossils everywhere.

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So my mom would take us on fossil walks and we would find like shark's teeth and manatee bones.

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And then it just was like, oh, what's this bone?

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What is this animal called?

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where did this animal fit into the ecosystem?

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And it just kind of kept spiraling.

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Right.

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That is a fun idea.

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Yeah.

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If you've never gone fossil hunting, 10 out of 10.

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really suggest it really do we're not talking like at circle b right like we're

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talking like go to oh yeah beach or something yeah go to the go to the beach go

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like there's a bunch of rivers and creeks all around florida rainbow river

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especially i don't know if you guys are quite close to that one but it would be

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worth the drive needless to say yeah we recently went to wiki wiki watchy nice i

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love that area oh yeah it was awesome

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It really was.

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It was a fun area, but I didn't even think about looking for fossils.

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Have you found a mermaid fossil?

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No.

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I'm just kidding.

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I wish.

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Oh, mermaids are real.

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100%.

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We'll get back to that.

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Scientists claimed mermaids are real.

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All right.

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Oh, you heard it here first.

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I love it.

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I absolutely love it.

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Well,

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I mean,

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so the idea of going on these fossil walks,

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right,

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and your mom really exposing you to the world and being born and raised in Florida,

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I mean,

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that right there just shows your interest in,

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by all things,

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marine biology.

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I mean, how did you get to the point of being interested in researching microplastics?

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So that kind of came when I was a junior in high school.

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My dad's job relocated us to middle of nowhere, South Carolina.

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And I was really landlocked for a couple of years.

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Absolutely did not like it.

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And I went to University of North Carolina, Wilmington for my undergrad.

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And that's where I got it.

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met Bonnie Montaloni,

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who does a plastic research project,

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or a plastic ocean project,

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and she did an entire Netflix documentary.

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She is absolutely fabulous, cannot speak highly enough of her.

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And I actually took a microplastics class with her in school, and that's how I was exposed to it.

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And I ended up dissecting 146 fish specimens

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for ingestion of microplastics for like large trophy fishes that were actually

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located out of the Florida Keys.

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So like mahi-mahi, sailfish, marlin, those kinds of species.

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And I analyzed like

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the microplastics from their gut contents and i also did a micro plastic derby with

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her so we got a lot of local charter captains instead of chartering for fish they

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did uh chartering for plastics so we released um this specialized microplastics net

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into the water that trailed behind the boat and we especially we kind of did like a

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tournament basically of who could ever come back

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with the most amount of plastic,

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the biggest amount of plastic,

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the smallest amount of plastic,

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and they can get rewards as well.

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So it was a really cool experience.

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That's genius.

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Yeah.

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Seriously.

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Yeah.

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So I know Florida has,

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they do that bounty program for like invasive species of lionfish and anaconda or

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pythons and all that stuff.

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Why don't they do that for plastic?

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Yeah.

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For plastic in the ocean, because that's a,

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clearly a huge problem yeah that's that's what bonnie's working on she's trying to

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get that idea to more widespread but yeah yeah i don't know why you wouldn't do it

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yeah it is brilliant because it kind of it's kind of a competition which humans

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thrive off competition yeah

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And you're doing good while also trying to maybe win some money.

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Seriously.

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I mean, who wouldn't want to jump on that?

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I mean,

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it would be so easy to,

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especially when you're talking about plastic,

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because most of it is going to be single use,

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right?

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The bottles, the detergent things or whatever.

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So it'd be pretty easy, I think, to find that stuff.

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Interesting.

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Oh yeah.

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I like that idea.

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It also really depends on where you're going.

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So a lot of our microplastics end up in seaweed that float on the surface and get

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caught up in all of that.

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And so when you're at the beach, ideally you want to be at a beach that doesn't have a lot of seaweed.

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So when you're at the beach,

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you only see like really cigarette butts or bottle caps and like those really hard plastics.

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Um,

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But once you get into like the seaweed and the seaweed patches that roll up on the shore,

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you'll find like the Ziploc bags,

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the more of the plastic bottles,

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a lot of water bottles,

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flip flops.

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I've even found a cooler.

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I found once tons of different stuff.

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Well,

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I mean,

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based on just that,

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right,

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like the list of things you gave,

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obviously we people,

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humans,

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are the large contributor to microplastics.

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The only contributor.

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Well.

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I don't see a freaking lion using a water bottle.

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Okay.

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Yes, but someone on the beach, right?

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They lose their cooler.

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That's one thing.

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Yeah, but that's us all day.

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True.

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But is there any other contributor other than people going to the beach related to microplastics?

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Oh, there's a ton of different things.

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So once you start really digging into it,

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you realize just how much of our society has plastics infused into it.

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So one thing that a lot of people don't realize is that your clothes are a huge microplastic contributor.

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A lot of the textiles have acrylics or polymers in it that release microplastics

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into your washing machine.

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which then get drained down and then the cycle continues.

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They also have these things called nurdles.

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I'm not sure if you've heard of them, but they are in a lot of industrial things to smooth over surfaces.

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So it's plastic beading.

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Another one that's not a lot of people realize is for women like skincare,

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that stuff that feels so good on your face and like really exfoliates your skin

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probably has some microplastics in it.

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The little beads are probably plastic beads and that's another source.

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Yeah.

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The exfoliant is probably a microplastic, unfortunately.

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So you got to like,

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You have to do a lot of reading now, which is crazy.

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But yeah.

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And then obviously you have your traditional plastic.

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What's the word?

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Plastic sources, I would guess you would say.

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Like restaurants,

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you have a lot of takeout boxes,

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Ziploc bags,

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those water bottles,

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silverware,

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those straws,

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those kinds of things.

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I guess it's not silverware if it's plastic.

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cutlery yeah there you go well hold on can we go back just one second you said

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clothes yeah and that literally just blew my mind like i when you talk about

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washing your clothes i understand that the uh fling packs right like the little

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detergent fling packs yeah the tide pods that all the teenagers right yeah

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Yes, those that the actual casein may have some plastic to it.

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There's plastic components to it.

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But you're saying my actual like my shirt that I have on.

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They have some sort of plastic residue that gets into the wash and becomes a microplastic.

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This is organic cotton.

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Yeah.

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So if it does say like 100% cotton or 100% like fleece or whatever,

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then it doesn't have any plastic in it.

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But the things that you have to look out for is like acrylics.

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So they're taking the cotton or they're taking literally like the plastic bottles

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and they string it out to create a fabric like substance that they then make

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clothes out of.

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So like a lot of your workout clothes,

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a lot of your leggings are probably going to have those plastic components in there.

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Is polyester, is that plastic?

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I'm not sure if it's considered plastic.

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I think it is.

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Because I know that I see that on labels a lot for clothing is 30%.

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My mind is blown right now.

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Like the idea that you have clothes that are essentially leeching into your water.

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Into your skin.

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Oh, I have it.

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So I looked at the notes that I made because I wanted to make sure I was like fact

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checking myself before I just spewed random shit.

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I absolutely love you.

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No, you're good.

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We're allowed.

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I curse like a sailor.

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Heads up.

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Okay, cool.

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He was in the Coast Guard.

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We're used to it.

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It's okay.

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Everyone in science curses a lot.

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Except when we're presenting, we're like, oh, this is our research.

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This is the data.

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And then meanwhile, we're running our software.

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Like, fuck.

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Textile fibers with acrylic and polyester.

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So yes, polyester does have plastic in it.

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And it is included in that.

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And I know that's a very common one.

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My leggings.

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I know.

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The leggings I have on.

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You better recycle that thing.

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I mean... So, okay.

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I mean... So, essentially, we're saying everything has plastic in it.

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Pretty much.

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At this point.

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Your phone has plastic in it.

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Computer.

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Your... What do we do?

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That's a great question.

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So a lot of people are looking into different ways to produce a plastic-like

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substance without it actually being plastic.

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So I know a common one that they've been turning to is corn.

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They've actually been using corn and breaking it down into its starch form and then using basically a...

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A mold.

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That's the word I'm looking for.

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A mold to create new things that have the same texture as plastic but are actually biodegradable.

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So it's really good for the environment instead.

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But the issue with that is getting enough to make

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the constant source of plastic that we have to replace it.

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And then the issue with microplastics isn't that we're using a ton of plastic.

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It's the we don't have any way to reduce the plastic that we already have.

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So we have huge plastic piles floating in the middle of the ocean that have congregated.

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And nobody, A, nobody knows how to collect all of that efficiently without it being uber expensive.

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And then B, once you've collected all of it, what do you do with it?

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So those are the two main problems when it comes to plastic.

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And plastic is forever.

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Yes.

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It takes forever to break down and then

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people's definitions of microplastic are different.

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So, like, what I consider microplastic could be as small as a pinhead.

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Some people consider it even smaller than that.

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So, and you're talking about

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centimeters millimeters micrometers you're talking tiny tiny little pieces which

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they've even found plastic now settling into the human body um which is not good

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that scares me i've read you can inhale microplastics now it's airborne that's how

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fine they are that's nuts yeah i know like it's everywhere yeah it's everywhere you

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can't there's no

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essentially getting rid of it, which is very dark to think of.

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Who thought this shit was a good idea?

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Yeah, some guys.

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Boomers!

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Boomers!

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I just don't

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I don't understand how we go down a path that we, it's an irreversible path.

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Like we're down it.

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Now we have to figure out how to undo years and years of, of pollution.

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And I read and researched the recycling industry.

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I read a lot of bad things that it really doesn't do anything.

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Sometimes it does.

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I'm not saying everything.

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but I read that we ship some of our recycling stuff over to China and then China

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just dumps it in the ocean.

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Yeah.

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Because it's cheaper for us to do that.

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But so, so like we're not recycling.

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Yeah.

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It's honestly, if the system is broken, um, on a multitude of different facets, but yeah,

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The main issue with it is that we have this problem.

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We know we need to do... It's kind of like global warming.

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Wow.

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We have this problem.

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We know that we need to make steps towards it.

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And then we absolutely have no foundational system or steps of how to alleviate

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that problem without completely rewriting the way that we do things.

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So, like, for some people, you know, oh, I...

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I'm in Maine currently because I'm focusing on writing my two books for the summer.

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So I was like, oh, cool, Maine.

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I'll go in the middle of the woods and write.

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But here, they don't have recycling bins.

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There's not one anywhere.

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You can't just take out your trash and there's not a recycling bin.

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It doesn't exist.

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But they have, you only can buy a recyclable bag for your groceries or you're using a paper bag.

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But they don't

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Like, what do you do with your cardboard boxes?

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What do you do?

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What do you do with all the... You know, and then...

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The other issue,

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too,

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is the inaccessibility for people financially to be able to afford things that

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aren't a one-time use or disposable.

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I use wax seals over my leftovers,

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or I use reusable Ziploc bags,

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but those are expensive,

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especially when they break,

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and not everybody can financially afford to do that.

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It's cheaper to buy 100 Ziploc bags versus...

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the four or five reusable Ziploc bags, especially if you have a large family or something like that.

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So there's a lot of things that we need to figure out as a society.

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And I think about it all the time because I'm like,

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wow,

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for such a smart species,

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we have really come up with some dumb things.

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Yeah.

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Oh, man.

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I don't know.

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We never think about the long game.

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No.

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I think it's our problem.

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Well, you just said it, that we send our stuff to China for recycling because of money.

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It's cheaper.

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But we're using...

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overabundance of plastic because of money corporation big corporations are over

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there everything goes into plastic because it's real cheap it's readily available

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it costs me less and i can charge you and make a lot more money than doing this

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corn thing or some kind of biodegradable packaging or paper packaging for deodorant

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sticks which makes sense because it's not liquid but you know it's it's more

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expensive which but

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when we don't have the facilities, like where you're at, you don't have the facilities.

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It's like, why, why don't we push more towards these big companies to be more responsible?

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They have the money to do it.

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I think, I think there's something definitely to be said for the convenience of it.

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Like it's easy.

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It's easy to put something in a Ziploc bag and then like, Oh, I don't need that anymore.

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You just throw it away.

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Like,

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It's much harder to wash out the Ziploc bag,

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you know,

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because some recycling facilities make you separate out your recyclables into your

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different types of recyclables.

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You know, you have your hard plastics, soft plastics, single-use plastics, et cetera, et cetera.

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And not everybody wants to do that sometimes.

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I'm guilty of it.

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Everybody's guilty of it.

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For sure.

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I don't want to sit there and wash my bags.

(00:19:58):
What are you talking about?

(00:20:01):
And then you have people that just truly have no concept and have no clue.

(00:20:07):
I have walked around here again,

(00:20:09):
Maine,

(00:20:10):
and I'm like,

(00:20:10):
oh,

(00:20:10):
yeah,

(00:20:10):
I'm a choral biologist and science communicator.

(00:20:13):
And they're like, what?

(00:20:14):
What is that?

(00:20:15):
What is that?

(00:20:16):
So I think, again, we have a long way to go.

(00:20:20):
as far as being able to communicate effectively.

(00:20:24):
And then it kind of leads back to the financial thing because we have these large

(00:20:29):
corporations that do have the finances of doing that,

(00:20:32):
but they get their finances from us.

(00:20:34):
So unless we sit there and we're like, no, we're not going to buy it anymore until you get better.

(00:20:40):
Screw you.

(00:20:41):
But then you have the single mom of five that can't afford that option.

(00:20:46):
Right.

(00:20:47):
what are you going to make her do?

(00:20:49):
Like, yeah, it's a rock and a hard place.

(00:20:52):
Yeah.

(00:20:53):
I just, I don't know.

(00:20:54):
Like when you go to the grocery store, you don't really have much choice.

(00:20:58):
No.

(00:20:59):
If you want to eat, you're buying something out of plastic.

(00:21:02):
Well,

(00:21:02):
even if you go on Amazon,

(00:21:04):
for example,

(00:21:05):
right,

(00:21:05):
and you look for something that is a product that does not have plastic,

(00:21:09):
Amazon's going to ship it to you in a plastic wrap.

(00:21:13):
Yeah.

(00:21:14):
And or a cardboard box.

(00:21:16):
With the bubbles, the plastic bubbles.

(00:21:18):
Right.

(00:21:18):
And then you have the carbon emissions on top of that from being shipped to you.

(00:21:22):
Yep.

(00:21:23):
Yep.

(00:21:23):
Yeah.

(00:21:24):
So unless you make it yourself,

(00:21:25):
which,

(00:21:26):
you know,

(00:21:26):
a lot of millennials and Gen Z's are doing now,

(00:21:29):
like trying to make their own products rather than buying.

(00:21:32):
Which is great.

(00:21:35):
I agree.

(00:21:36):
But I'm not that crafty.

(00:21:39):
So a lot of that is, you know, you have to learn the skill.

(00:21:43):
So again, you're back to convenience and you're back to finance.

(00:21:45):
So I hear you loud and clear on everything that you guys are talking about, but my mind is still blown.

(00:21:51):
Yeah.

(00:21:53):
But I just,

(00:21:54):
I want to say,

(00:21:54):
I think we need to push more towards these big companies doing something about it

(00:21:59):
rather than...

(00:22:00):
I know we still are responsible.

(00:22:03):
Money talks.

(00:22:04):
But yes, money talks.

(00:22:06):
And I feel like,

(00:22:08):
like I said,

(00:22:09):
I can't go to the grocery store and leave there without having something in plastic.

(00:22:13):
It's impossible unless I go to Farmer Joe up the road and he hands me a bunch of

(00:22:19):
stuff that's outrageously expensive that I can't afford.

(00:22:22):
Yeah.

(00:22:22):
But...

(00:22:23):
I don't know.

(00:22:24):
I just feel like all these big companies,

(00:22:25):
they need to be held more responsible for their plastic footprint.

(00:22:28):
Absolutely.

(00:22:29):
I, I completely agree with you.

(00:22:32):
And I definitely, definitely, I definitely think that consumers should push more.

(00:22:39):
Like we're seeing that with kind of Kellogg's and the cereal brands right now of like,

(00:22:43):
Oh,

(00:22:44):
you want to eat cereal for dinner?

(00:22:45):
Oh, good.

(00:22:46):
And like,

(00:22:47):
I think that we have a lot more power than we want to recognize sometimes of like,

(00:22:54):
oh,

(00:22:54):
this is just how it is.

(00:22:55):
But no, we don't have to accept that.

(00:22:57):
And I think if these corporations truly wanted to change, they definitely have the possibility to.

(00:23:06):
And I will also say that there is a lot of.

(00:23:10):
Whole Foods and,

(00:23:11):
like,

(00:23:13):
bulk,

(00:23:14):
like,

(00:23:14):
container stores that are popping up more,

(00:23:16):
especially in,

(00:23:17):
like,

(00:23:17):
coastal cities,

(00:23:19):
which makes me so happy to see.

(00:23:20):
I don't know if you guys have seen one yet,

(00:23:22):
where you basically,

(00:23:23):
you bring in any container of what you want,

(00:23:25):
and then you can buy anything from sugar,

(00:23:29):
rice,

(00:23:30):
flour,

(00:23:31):
soap,

(00:23:32):
all sorts of stuff,

(00:23:33):
and you just bring your container and you pay by the weight of the product that you use.

(00:23:38):
And I think that is definitely going to

(00:23:41):
hopefully be the way moving forward of what we do.

(00:23:46):
Yeah, you think about like Lidl or Aldi or whatever.

(00:23:51):
Trader Joe's.

(00:23:52):
Yeah, exactly.

(00:23:53):
Like they all sell products in bulk and or you have to bring your own,

(00:23:58):
you know,

(00:23:59):
bags,

(00:24:00):
packaging,

(00:24:01):
however you want to get it home.

(00:24:02):
So that's just taking it a step further.

(00:24:04):
So I like that idea.

(00:24:06):
Like let me buy the product and let me figure out how to store it.

(00:24:09):
I'm good.

(00:24:10):
Speaking of bringing your own bags, I had a story that my parents were telling me about when they were

(00:24:16):
younger grocery shopping they went from plastic to paper because plastic's bad but

(00:24:23):
then they said okay we got to stop using paper and go back to plastic because we're

(00:24:27):
chopping down all the trees it's like that was gonna be my next point i was like

(00:24:32):
well and the other bad part about paper is that then we are yeah we can sustainably

(00:24:39):
do that now you know like we've got tree farms and all that well

(00:24:44):
But there's a difference, though, right?

(00:24:45):
Let me figure out how I'm going to store it.

(00:24:48):
I don't need you to put it in whatever packaging, make it pretty and colorful and like, no, I'm good.

(00:24:55):
If I need soap, then I will get a container that I am going to use to dispense said soap.

(00:25:00):
Yeah.

(00:25:00):
And that will be on me to decide on you.

(00:25:03):
Why are you putting cereal in a box?

(00:25:05):
Well, in a bag.

(00:25:06):
Yeah, exactly.

(00:25:08):
Just dump the cereal in that box, man.

(00:25:12):
Or have a big dispensary and I'll come fill up a bowl.

(00:25:15):
There you go.

(00:25:16):
I saw this video on Facebook.

(00:25:17):
It would probably drive you nuts, Summer.

(00:25:19):
It was a lady.

(00:25:21):
She's an organizational person, right?

(00:25:22):
And she goes to the grocery store.

(00:25:24):
She buys all this stuff.

(00:25:25):
And then she takes it out of the containers and puts it in new containers.

(00:25:28):
This is Russ's pet peeve.

(00:25:30):
Oh, my God.

(00:25:30):
Or like it's like the aesthetic.

(00:25:32):
Yes.

(00:25:32):
The refrigerator.

(00:25:33):
That is his pet peeve.

(00:25:34):
Organizing everything.

(00:25:35):
I was so mad.

(00:25:37):
yeah yeah i was like you just bought plastic containers to take stuff out of

(00:25:43):
plastic containers to put into plastic to put into another plastic container so

(00:25:47):
happy medium because i love the aesthetic of an organized fridge i will not lie it

(00:25:53):
looks beautiful the part that isn't so eco-friendly to me is that she's buying it

(00:25:58):
and then putting it in other things

(00:26:00):
So what she could do instead is go to a farmer's market, which I did a lot in the Keys.

(00:26:05):
If you can find a local farmer's market,

(00:26:06):
10 out of 10,

(00:26:07):
they are normally a little bit cheaper than a grocery store anyway.

(00:26:11):
And I would much rather help a family that's having their own farm than fuel a mega corporation.

(00:26:20):
So she could do that instead.

(00:26:21):
So maybe next time you see one of those, be like, check your local farmer's market instead.

(00:26:26):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

(00:26:27):
Oh my gosh, it was so agitating.

(00:26:30):
This is not how I thought this conversation was going to go at all.

(00:26:33):
I think it was like midnight when I saw this video and I woke her up and I said, look at this shit.

(00:26:40):
You need to see this.

(00:26:41):
This is bullshit.

(00:26:45):
Oh, I am enjoying you, Summer.

(00:26:48):
I'm enjoying this conversation.

(00:26:50):
Me too.

(00:26:51):
It's flowing great.

(00:26:52):
Ten out of ten.

(00:26:53):
I did not think we were going to talk about organized fridges at all, but here we go.

(00:26:58):
You never know on this one.

(00:27:01):
We are unfiltered.

(00:27:02):
That's right.

(00:27:03):
Yeah.

(00:27:04):
That's right.

(00:27:06):
Okay, going back to marine biology here for a minute.

(00:27:10):
Circle back.

(00:27:11):
Let's come back here.

(00:27:13):
So overall,

(00:27:14):
I mean,

(00:27:15):
I could probably say that we would all agree that microplastics are one of the

(00:27:19):
biggest threats to the ocean at this point.

(00:27:21):
Yeah.

(00:27:22):
I mean, overall, that's a big one.

(00:27:26):
I mean,

(00:27:26):
can we think of anything other than microplastics that would also be an impact to

(00:27:32):
the ocean that is either what we think the largest threat or second largest threat?

(00:27:38):
I would, obviously, global warming, ocean acidification, pollution.

(00:27:46):
What else?

(00:27:47):
Disease, overfishing, destruction of habitat.

(00:27:53):
Summer, you posted a video that had the fish that was spinning?

(00:28:02):
Yeah, it's like a whole phenomenon that's going on in the Florida Keys right now.

(00:28:07):
What is it?

(00:28:09):
I didn't show you that video.

(00:28:10):
I didn't wake you up at midnight.

(00:28:11):
I'm sorry.

(00:28:12):
You aren't in a fit of rage.

(00:28:15):
No, I was probably flabbergasted.

(00:28:17):
Like, what is this fish doing?

(00:28:19):
Her guests were flabbergasted.

(00:28:22):
Yeah, so nobody really knows, unfortunately, of what's going on.

(00:28:28):
And I haven't had time to reach out to my contacts to figure out further what's happening.

(00:28:35):
But there are now...

(00:28:37):
Thankfully,

(00:28:38):
a ton of different programs and organizations that have answered the call right

(00:28:44):
away and are now looking into it,

(00:28:46):
collecting data samples of

(00:28:48):
vastly different water qualities from all the way next to the shore, all the way offshore.

(00:28:53):
They're collecting specimens that are exhibiting this problem.

(00:28:58):
So basically, Russ, I don't know.

(00:29:00):
I'm going to cue you in on the conversation real quick,

(00:29:03):
you know,

(00:29:03):
since you don't know what we're talking about.

(00:29:06):
Basically, a lot of the fish species in the Florida Keys have just been spinning.

(00:29:13):
They don't do anything else.

(00:29:15):
They just spin in circles,

(00:29:16):
kind of like how your pet goldfish growing up when they had a really bad water

(00:29:20):
quality just starts spinning in circles and you know they're going to die soon.

(00:29:24):
That's what's happening in the Florida Keys.

(00:29:26):
And unfortunately, it's progressed so bad to the point where it's now impacting our...

(00:29:34):
sawfish population which is already a critically endangered species and we've lost

(00:29:39):
a lot of those individuals due to this problem of just them spinning on top of the

(00:29:46):
surface we've seen grouper we've seen pinfish we've seen sawfish we've seen

(00:29:52):
stingrays all sorts of things just at the surface spinning in circles and we don't

(00:29:56):
know what's going on so a lot of it's like a blanket thing it's not just fish it's

(00:30:03):
all kinds of stuff

(00:30:04):
Greg Fersenworth is the first person that noted this behavior.

(00:30:11):
And he's a local in the Florida Keys.

(00:30:13):
He's been diving forever.

(00:30:14):
He grew up there.

(00:30:16):
And he's been recording this phenomenon of fish spinning since last year and has

(00:30:24):
been reaching out to,

(00:30:25):
like,

(00:30:26):
CNN and other organizations like news outlets to be like, what is going on?

(00:30:30):
What is happening?

(00:30:32):
But unfortunately,

(00:30:33):
in that same time frame,

(00:30:34):
we also had the huge coral bleaching event in the Florida Keys.

(00:30:38):
So that kind of took precedent over this fish spinning story.

(00:30:43):
And now since then,

(00:30:44):
it's just increasingly got worse until it finally impacted the sawtooth,

(00:30:50):
the sawfish population.

(00:30:53):
So now that

(00:30:54):
unfortunately, has finally grabbed people's attention.

(00:30:56):
So now they're doing something about it.

(00:30:59):
But there's been hypothetical theories all the way from poor water quality to a parasite to a disease.

(00:31:08):
We have no idea.

(00:31:11):
That's wild.

(00:31:12):
It's crazy.

(00:31:13):
The videos that Summer has on Instagram of these

(00:31:17):
fish and other types of sea animals doing it.

(00:31:20):
Like it literally looks like they can't stop.

(00:31:23):
They're just going in circles.

(00:31:25):
It's insane.

(00:31:26):
But I'm glad to hear that people are answering the call.

(00:31:30):
And when you look at the water temperature for Florida,

(00:31:34):
like from the Gulf all the way through,

(00:31:36):
you know,

(00:31:37):
to the Atlantic,

(00:31:38):
The temperature every summer has gotten at least a degree higher every summer since we've lived here.

(00:31:45):
And we've been in Florida for almost four years.

(00:31:47):
So it's getting hot.

(00:31:49):
Oh, yeah.

(00:31:50):
It's bath water.

(00:31:51):
We have 101 degrees surface temperature.

(00:31:55):
right last year i mean overall though um but overall though it just seems like with

(00:32:03):
the water temperature rising it can only be you know one of those reasons like it

(00:32:09):
can only be a parasite or the water quality right like is that why is that what the

(00:32:14):
the bleaching does it have something to do with the bleaching event

(00:32:17):
Oh,

(00:32:18):
that's,

(00:32:19):
that's also a theory is that like,

(00:32:21):
because we had so many coral like bleach out and die and have tissue necrosis that

(00:32:28):
then the algae overly bloomed in the water.

(00:32:33):
So it's a specific type of algae that's consuming too much oxygen.

(00:32:37):
And it might be because of an oxygen loss.

(00:32:39):
It could be that the toxicity of the water is too high because now we have all this

(00:32:44):
necrosis and death basically in the water.

(00:32:48):
Greg also did like a timescale looking of drone footage over the Florida Keys.

(00:32:53):
And you can see like the progression of algae growth throughout like a timeline that he took.

(00:32:59):
And you can literally see the water get greener and greener and greener because of the algae.

(00:33:04):
So Greg's thinking it could potentially be algae, but I'm not sure.

(00:33:09):
Nobody's really figured it out yet.

(00:33:11):
It's kind of a great mystery right now.

(00:33:13):
And it's very nerve wracking.

(00:33:16):
To the point where people are like, I don't want to go in the water anymore.

(00:33:20):
And that's devastating.

(00:33:23):
Yeah, I don't want to spin around in circles.

(00:33:25):
Are they zombie fish?

(00:33:30):
Don't get me started.

(00:33:32):
Is that how it gets to humans?

(00:33:34):
Okay, sorry.

(00:33:35):
Zombie apocalypse 2024.

(00:33:36):
Here we go.

(00:33:38):
It's not mushrooms, it's fish!

(00:33:41):
You did say the people in Maine had no idea what...

(00:33:44):
Oh, for sure.

(00:33:45):
It's going to.

(00:33:47):
It's either going to be algae or meth.

(00:33:51):
Or the bath salts.

(00:33:52):
Or bath salts.

(00:33:53):
That's right.

(00:33:56):
Oh, God, I'm having way too much fun.

(00:33:57):
But you did say that you were in Maine and nobody knew what coral reefs were or coral was.

(00:34:03):
And I thought that they probably would have thought that it was the sun from Walking Dead.

(00:34:08):
Oh, Carl.

(00:34:10):
Carl!

(00:34:11):
Enough from you.

(00:34:14):
I love that show, so you can't get me wrong.

(00:34:17):
Negan!

(00:34:18):
Anyway, I loved him.

(00:34:21):
Great character.

(00:34:22):
10 out of 10.

(00:34:22):
Okay, we're gonna edit that part.

(00:34:27):
Well, when it comes to the coral bleaching, right?

(00:34:29):
So there's tons of efforts.

(00:34:31):
And again,

(00:34:32):
when we went to SeaWorld,

(00:34:33):
they had all of the tanks of the corals that they were restoring,

(00:34:38):
trying to rehabilitate.

(00:34:40):
So what made you turn your focus from the

(00:34:44):
from any of the marine biology and start to focus in on the coral restoration?

(00:34:49):
Yeah, so I graduated college right in the middle of the pandarini.

(00:34:55):
It was great.

(00:34:58):
Had an online graduation.

(00:34:59):
It was great.

(00:35:02):
And I worked at a red grocery store for at least eight months.

(00:35:10):
And I was just miserable because, you know, tangeriney.

(00:35:13):
And I was like, okay, I'm at this point in my career.

(00:35:17):
I've graduated.

(00:35:18):
I have my degree.

(00:35:19):
I want to do something with it.

(00:35:21):
The world is kind of in shambles right now, but let's just see if anybody's taking internships.

(00:35:27):
I got to diversify my resume a little bit more.

(00:35:29):
You know, I had done, I had worked with sea turtles.

(00:35:33):
I had worked in microplastics.

(00:35:34):
I loved and thoroughly enjoyed both of those experiences,

(00:35:38):
but I knew I had that like tickling feeling of like,

(00:35:41):
This isn't it.

(00:35:42):
This isn't my thing.

(00:35:44):
And I wanted to figure out what my thing was.

(00:35:46):
So I was like, okay, let's, you know, I had gone to Belize.

(00:35:49):
I did a study abroad there in my undergrad and I thoroughly loved it.

(00:35:53):
I saw healthy reefs for the first time in my life and I was just taken aback.

(00:35:58):
So I was like, okay, let's try corals.

(00:36:01):
Why not?

(00:36:01):
And so I applied for the internship in the Florida Keys at the laboratory and

(00:36:09):
and they were like yeah sure come on down and i was like oh my gosh okay cool i i'm

(00:36:16):
you know i'm 20 at the time i'm like i'm moving to the florida keys this is crazy

(00:36:22):
this is great and it was at like my dream laboratory it was my top pick up from all

(00:36:28):
of my internships and i moved down there for

(00:36:33):
In the beginning of January 2021.

(00:36:35):
And I worked as an intern.

(00:36:39):
Unpaid.

(00:36:40):
In the Florida Keys.

(00:36:42):
For four months.

(00:36:44):
And I loved it.

(00:36:45):
That's where I fell in love with choral.

(00:36:47):
That's where I had the passion.

(00:36:50):
mind bending explosion of, okay, this is what I'm meant to do.

(00:36:54):
This is what I'm supposed to work on.

(00:36:56):
This is what I'm, you know, I love this animal and it's so vastly underappreciated.

(00:37:02):
Most people look at it and it's like, that's a rock.

(00:37:04):
I'm like, no.

(00:37:06):
No, that's a boulder.

(00:37:08):
It's alive.

(00:37:09):
And it's way cooler than a rock.

(00:37:11):
It's not just a rock.

(00:37:12):
Don't touch it.

(00:37:13):
Yeah, exactly.

(00:37:14):
Exactly.

(00:37:14):
And I, like, led tours.

(00:37:18):
I got to meet different colleges and, like, students.

(00:37:21):
And I got to educate and work with a great group of staff there.

(00:37:25):
And I just fell in love with it.

(00:37:27):
And so at the end of my four months, I was supposed to get out.

(00:37:32):
And I didn't want to.

(00:37:33):
So...

(00:37:35):
I wrote up an email to the president of the research facility,

(00:37:41):
and I was just like,

(00:37:42):
hi,

(00:37:43):
your team is really understaffed.

(00:37:45):
I'm here.

(00:37:45):
I have a place to live, and I want to work for you.

(00:37:49):
And for some reason, I guess I just...

(00:37:53):
impressed her with my overconfidence.

(00:37:56):
Yeah.

(00:37:57):
And, um, she was like, sure, why not?

(00:38:00):
So I talked to my mentor about it,

(00:38:02):
sent the email and I did an interview with her and I was like shaking like a leaf

(00:38:08):
and I had like 15 questions too many.

(00:38:12):
And she was phenomenal too, because everyone that I've met in Coral has been amazing people.

(00:38:17):
And, um,

(00:38:19):
I was standing outside of the lab, like talking with the staff that I had worked with.

(00:38:25):
And I was like, I don't know.

(00:38:27):
I'm really nervous.

(00:38:28):
And I don't know.

(00:38:29):
And she came up behind me and she gave me a side hug.

(00:38:32):
And she's like, hello, guys.

(00:38:33):
You talking to our new staff?

(00:38:34):
And I just look over like, what?

(00:38:36):
And it was really cool.

(00:38:39):
So that's kind of, I just fell into it.

(00:38:42):
I didn't mean to.

(00:38:44):
I never thought I was going to work with corals.

(00:38:46):
Initially, I went into marine science thinking, oh, I'm going to work with sharks.

(00:38:50):
Sharks are my jam.

(00:38:51):
That's all I want.

(00:38:53):
not taking anything but sharks, and then here I am, coral lady.

(00:38:57):
100%.

(00:38:59):
Boulders.

(00:39:00):
Yeah.

(00:39:00):
I'm just kidding.

(00:39:01):
Yeah, ocean boulders.

(00:39:02):
Well,

(00:39:03):
okay,

(00:39:03):
so some coral,

(00:39:05):
like some species of coral are literally called boulder corals,

(00:39:08):
so you're not wrong.

(00:39:09):
So you're not wrong.

(00:39:10):
See, I know.

(00:39:11):
There you go.

(00:39:15):
You said that you just fell into it.

(00:39:16):
Let's be clear.

(00:39:17):
No, you lady boss that.

(00:39:19):
I just want to give you your props on that because you took initiative and you got in there.

(00:39:24):
Like that is awesome.

(00:39:26):
Summer.

(00:39:26):
I won't let you take that away from you.

(00:39:30):
Thanks.

(00:39:30):
Appreciate it.

(00:39:32):
I started the internship and I'm like, I'm not leaving here without a job.

(00:39:37):
Damn it.

(00:39:37):
I'm not doing it.

(00:39:39):
There you go.

(00:39:39):
I feel like more people need that mentality.

(00:39:44):
I want this.

(00:39:45):
I'm going to get it.

(00:39:47):
Have that drive and you will get the things that you want.

(00:39:52):
You do it.

(00:39:53):
It's all about that confidence too.

(00:39:55):
You emailing that person and saying,

(00:39:59):
I'm just not leaving.

(00:40:02):
You should hire me.

(00:40:04):
You have to keep me.

(00:40:07):
I'm staying and you can go.

(00:40:09):
I honestly, I think it's a mixture of like my dad says it's better to be lucky than good all the time.

(00:40:17):
And I do think it's a mixture of luck, like timing, luck, and luck.

(00:40:22):
confidence because just at that time they were because I worked at a non-profit so

(00:40:27):
a lot of that money is considered soft money so nobody's guaranteed their roles and

(00:40:33):
hiring is very difficult because they have to allocate so much money a year towards

(00:40:38):
paying that person to actually live and I just happened to hit the timing right

(00:40:43):
where they had just gotten a huge grant to be able to allocate another staff member

(00:40:48):
so

(00:40:51):
The stars aligned.

(00:40:53):
It's great.

(00:40:55):
It's all that matters.

(00:40:58):
And now here we are.

(00:40:59):
And now we get to talk to you all about Coral.

(00:41:03):
And you're on our podcast.

(00:41:05):
Woo!

(00:41:08):
I loved that.

(00:41:08):
Keep that in there, please.

(00:41:10):
Oh, it's staying.

(00:41:14):
Our synchronized woo!

(00:41:16):
Yeah, we gotta keep it.

(00:41:19):
Okay, so again, trying to bring it back here, guys.

(00:41:24):
So again, when we talk about restoration of coral, what exactly does that mean?

(00:41:30):
Like, pretend I know nothing.

(00:41:31):
Pretend I don't follow you on Instagram obsessively.

(00:41:34):
Pretend I know nothing.

(00:41:35):
What does that mean?

(00:41:36):
Okay, so basically, you can kind of think of it like... Your yard.

(00:41:44):
Your yard.

(00:41:44):
Right.

(00:41:45):
So say your yard,

(00:41:47):
you mow the lawn and then all of a sudden these bugs come through and you have

(00:41:52):
patches of brown grass everywhere.

(00:41:56):
It's not good.

(00:41:57):
You don't want your yard to look like that.

(00:41:58):
You're going to have mud patches and just dead grass sitting there, not doing anything.

(00:42:04):
And you have an ugly yard and it's not good for you.

(00:42:07):
You don't like how it looks and it's not good.

(00:42:09):
Your HOA is going to find you.

(00:42:10):
Yeah, your HOA is going to find you.

(00:42:11):
It's not good.

(00:42:12):
So what do you do?

(00:42:14):
You buy seeds, right?

(00:42:17):
You buy seeds for your grass,

(00:42:18):
you lay your grass down,

(00:42:19):
you water your grass,

(00:42:21):
and then it comes back to life and it all looks good.

(00:42:23):
And you have a healthy, full coverage surface amount of grass and it's perfect.

(00:42:30):
So that's kind of what restoration does.

(00:42:32):
So it's perfect.

(00:42:34):
Um, restoration is far from perfect.

(00:42:36):
There's actually a lot of debate on whether it's good or not, but I'll answer that later on.

(00:42:41):
Um,

(00:42:42):
Basically,

(00:42:43):
we take corals that are either rescue corals or that are from our spawning facility

(00:42:54):
and our reproduction facility and reproduction lab.

(00:42:57):
And we rescue them from the reef because they're either dying from a disease or

(00:43:03):
they have been dislodged from the reef.

(00:43:07):
And are like buried in sand are definitely going to die.

(00:43:09):
So we take those corals or we take them from like construction sites.

(00:43:13):
So like a seawall is being repaired or rebuilt and all these beautiful corals have

(00:43:17):
grown on there and they don't want to destroy the corals.

(00:43:19):
So they contact organizations like ours and they're like, hey, come get these.

(00:43:23):
So we don't have to kill them.

(00:43:24):
And we're like, cool.

(00:43:25):
So we come in.

(00:43:27):
And we have a, what's called a land-based nursery.

(00:43:30):
So you can kind of think of it like your aquarium tank in your house, if you have one.

(00:43:34):
And we take these corals and we essentially grow them in our tanks.

(00:43:40):
And after they've hit like a specific size range,

(00:43:44):
about a silver dollar is what we would say,

(00:43:47):
we outplant them to the reef.

(00:43:49):
So kind of like laying the seeds in your grass.

(00:43:52):
So we take a two-part epoxy,

(00:43:55):
kind of like plumber's epoxy,

(00:43:57):
and we literally take these little baby corals and we stick them on the reef of

(00:44:01):
different areas of the reef that have...

(00:44:05):
not been doing well or that have low coral coverage so most of the florida reefs

(00:44:11):
that i have seen are like at three percent coral coverage when they should really

(00:44:15):
be like 30 to 50 coral coverage so that's just you know kind of a percentage of how

(00:44:22):
much we're actually missing and our goal was to

(00:44:27):
increase the coral coverage that we have on a reef.

(00:44:30):
So again, kind of like thinking about your grass.

(00:44:32):
You want to think, you want to have nice, even amount of grass everywhere on your yard.

(00:44:38):
You want to have a nice, even amount of coral coverage on your reef.

(00:44:42):
So that's essentially what coral restoration does.

(00:44:46):
And then there's like a whole bunch of

(00:44:48):
Statistics and logistics behind all of that broken down really simply.

(00:44:54):
We take coral from the ocean or we make it in a reproduction lab.

(00:44:59):
We grow it in little and we grow it in tanks and then we take it from the tanks and put it onto the reef.

(00:45:04):
And the idea is that stuff spreads, right?

(00:45:07):
Yes.

(00:45:08):
Yes.

(00:45:08):
And that stuff spreads.

(00:45:09):
And then we're introducing more biodiversity onto the reef.

(00:45:13):
So when corals do spawn,

(00:45:15):
that they can actually spawn and reproduce naturally and thus working ourselves out

(00:45:20):
of the job.

(00:45:20):
That's the long-term goal is that eventually we won't have to do this,

(00:45:25):
but with the coral bleaching events that's happening and like all of the disease

(00:45:29):
progression that's happening behind that looks like it's going to be a couple more years.

(00:45:36):
At least.

(00:45:36):
Yeah.

(00:45:38):
At least.

(00:45:40):
So do you guys go back, like, when you do a seed, do you monitor that area?

(00:45:47):
Yes.

(00:45:48):
So every... What was that?

(00:45:50):
An outplant.

(00:45:51):
That's what we call them.

(00:45:52):
Oh, an outplant.

(00:45:52):
I'm sorry.

(00:45:52):
So instead of... No, no, no, you're good.

(00:45:54):
I was thinking about lawns.

(00:45:54):
I didn't explain.

(00:45:55):
Yeah.

(00:45:57):
But basically, so every...

(00:46:00):
Coral that we have, that's the silver dollar size, we call it an outplant.

(00:46:05):
And we outplant them specifically in clusters of four so they can reach sexual maturity faster.

(00:46:13):
So corals reach sexual maturity at size and not age.

(00:46:17):
So for a coral to start from a larvae,

(00:46:20):
settle onto the reef and grow to a sexual size,

(00:46:22):
which is about a dinner plate,

(00:46:24):
like that big.

(00:46:25):
Um, that would take like anywhere from 75 to a hundred years.

(00:46:30):
The way that we do it cuts it down to about five to six.

(00:46:33):
What?

(00:46:34):
Wow.

(00:46:35):
That's crazy.

(00:46:37):
Very fast.

(00:46:39):
Is it like you put going back to the lawn analogy,

(00:46:42):
you put like miracle grow on there in order to make it grow fast.

(00:46:46):
Yeah.

(00:46:46):
Oh, so we don't.

(00:46:48):
So how does the four thing make that happen?

(00:46:51):
So, um,

(00:46:54):
It's always difficult to explain the physiology of a coral without relating it to a

(00:47:00):
plant because it's not a plant.

(00:47:02):
But think of it kind of like an ant colony.

(00:47:07):
So every ant is part of a colony, right?

(00:47:11):
Even though the ant is an individual thing, you can kind of think like a coral polyp is the same way.

(00:47:16):
It's all part of the colony.

(00:47:19):
But the way that colonies grow in size is that they produce more polyps growing every year.

(00:47:25):
So if we have four little pieces that are next to each other that are all the same genotype,

(00:47:32):
they will eventually fuse in size and recognize each other.

(00:47:36):
Kind of like if you cut open your skin and your skin fuses back together, it's kind of the same process.

(00:47:43):
Wow.

(00:47:44):
Yeah, super cool.

(00:47:45):
So you guys have figured out how to remove...

(00:47:50):
95 years out of the process that's freaking crazy that is insane and the idea that

(00:47:55):
it i'm learning so much about coral the idea that it fuses together that it almost

(00:48:01):
understands each other and it's like okay yeah you're you're me you can be me it's

(00:48:07):
like i'm you you're me like yeah it's the same thing

(00:48:12):
Well, OK, so we've talked about bleaching and we've talked about, you know, pollution, microplastics.

(00:48:16):
But what ultimately ultimately leads to a bleaching event?

(00:48:21):
Like what what is the threat to the coral reef?

(00:48:25):
Heat, water temperature.

(00:48:28):
So it would be like climate change.

(00:48:30):
That's going to be your.

(00:48:31):
Unfortunately, some people like hear climate change.

(00:48:34):
They're like, I'm not listening anymore.

(00:48:36):
Believe what you want.

(00:48:38):
Why it's happening.

(00:48:39):
It's happening regardless.

(00:48:41):
Yeah.

(00:48:42):
No matter what, it's gotten warmer.

(00:48:44):
And that water temperature change,

(00:48:46):
that shift in water temperature,

(00:48:48):
because corals are very much like us,

(00:48:51):
right?

(00:48:51):
We don't like it when it's 90 degrees outside.

(00:48:53):
We can go inside and we can cool off and turn on the AC.

(00:48:58):
Well, corals can't do that.

(00:49:00):
They have no choice.

(00:49:02):
And corals also have an algae symbiont called zooxanthellae that lives within their tissue.

(00:49:08):
So you can think of...

(00:49:11):
zooxanthellae kind of like um they produce the food that the coral feed on so coral

(00:49:19):
kind of are the landlords of this a huge apartment building that zooxanthellae live

(00:49:25):
in and then the ac gets shut off and skyrockets to 100 degrees so the coral's like

(00:49:31):
hey you gotta get out they kick out the zooxanthellae but then the coral is left

(00:49:36):
without any food

(00:49:38):
So then they starve, and then they boil, which is no good.

(00:49:42):
And that zooxanthellae, that uses photosynthesis?

(00:49:46):
Yes.

(00:49:48):
See, that's crazy.

(00:49:50):
It's like a self-sustaining ecosystem, but when you take one part away, it just blows the whole thing up.

(00:49:55):
That is crazy.

(00:49:57):
And besides the zooxanthellae,

(00:50:00):
coral polyps are able to grab food outside of,

(00:50:03):
like,

(00:50:03):
in the water column,

(00:50:04):
so like plankton,

(00:50:05):
and then I've even seen corals eat,

(00:50:07):
like,

(00:50:07):
full-blown

(00:50:08):
shrimp and shrimp and fish which is crazy i don't blame them this shit's good yeah

(00:50:13):
um except when they kick out the zooxanthellae like that's one of their largest

(00:50:18):
energy resources so and then they could also fluoresce which is really cool

(00:50:26):
But also kind of bad because that's their last defense of producing a sunscreen

(00:50:31):
almost to try to help them cool off and protect themselves.

(00:50:35):
And once you see that, that's kind of like the, oh shit, something's not right.

(00:50:42):
They're not good.

(00:50:43):
And then it'll either continue to bleach that white color and keep going past that and eventually die.

(00:50:52):
Because when coral are bleached, they're not dead.

(00:50:56):
Oh, okay.

(00:50:56):
See, I didn't know that.

(00:50:58):
Me either.

(00:50:59):
So, coral get most of their color from the stuff within their tissues and zooxanthellae themselves.

(00:51:10):
So, once that is expelled, their tissue is actually clear.

(00:51:16):
Okay.

(00:51:17):
So...

(00:51:18):
You can actually go super... I actually have a post about this coming up soon.

(00:51:26):
When corals bleach, their tissue is super clear.

(00:51:28):
And all you're seeing is the carbonate skeleton in their body.

(00:51:33):
And that's what makes it appear white.

(00:51:35):
And that's why bleaching is white.

(00:51:38):
But they're not dead.

(00:51:39):
But they're not dead.

(00:51:41):
They're just dying.

(00:51:42):
We can save them.

(00:51:46):
Yes, they can recover from that if the AC is turned back on within a certain time frame.

(00:51:52):
But the issue is once we've hit that temperature in the seawater,

(00:51:56):
it takes a minute for it to come back down.

(00:51:59):
And a lot of the times the corals can't hang on within that threshold for it to cool off.

(00:52:04):
That is so weird.

(00:52:06):
So kind of like you can think of it like when people get a sunburn, they turn bright red and pink.

(00:52:12):
You don't want to see me with one of them.

(00:52:14):
Exactly.

(00:52:14):
Corals just turn white.

(00:52:17):
That's the difference.

(00:52:18):
They're still alive.

(00:52:19):
They just turn white when they get sunburned.

(00:52:21):
And that's effectively what's happening.

(00:52:25):
Wow.

(00:52:26):
So, okay.

(00:52:27):
So that's... We need some solo recover.

(00:52:32):
some spritz and a lot of different conferences like people are now suggest

(00:52:38):
scientists are now like all right balls to the wall fuck it whatever crazy ideas

(00:52:43):
like people have tried to do you know let's haul in offshore water that's cooler

(00:52:48):
let's start out planting coral in deeper depths to see if they'll live let's you

(00:52:54):
know throw a giant shade cloth over the entirety of the reef and see if it still

(00:52:59):
lives

(00:53:00):
The ideas now that are coming out are pretty drastic, but that's because now is the time.

(00:53:07):
And a lot of people are just now getting a grasp on, oh, coral is an animal.

(00:53:12):
Let's save this animal.

(00:53:14):
But the time for that knowledge was 30 years ago.

(00:53:18):
And so we're kind of behind the curve in that aspect of the general public recognizing,

(00:53:24):
yeah,

(00:53:25):
freaking boomers.

(00:53:25):
Everything's their fault.

(00:53:28):
recognizing like this is a huge problem that we're having and coral reefs are one

(00:53:36):
of the most biodiverse ecosystems on our entire globe so if we lose our reefs we're

(00:53:41):
gonna see a huge bio it'll be a domino effect yeah because they provide a lot of

(00:53:50):
shelter for

(00:53:52):
everything we went we went to to the keys back in oh god it was oh six yeah it was

(00:53:59):
years seven we were in high school guys at eight that aged us

(00:54:05):
We're millennials.

(00:54:06):
Let's be clear.

(00:54:08):
We went to a place called Sea Camp.

(00:54:10):
I don't know if you've ever heard of it down there.

(00:54:12):
Yes.

(00:54:13):
Where I worked was next door.

(00:54:15):
What?

(00:54:16):
That's hilarious.

(00:54:19):
We went there and we did a lot.

(00:54:20):
It was a really educational trip.

(00:54:22):
It was for school.

(00:54:24):
Oceanography.

(00:54:25):
It was for oceanography.

(00:54:27):
When we swam on the corals, we did not touch them.

(00:54:30):
They were amazing.

(00:54:32):
It was unbelievable to...

(00:54:35):
The colorfulness, the fish everywhere.

(00:54:38):
I couldn't imagine that not being there.

(00:54:41):
Yeah,

(00:54:43):
it's interesting to talk to some of the older conservationists and scientists that

(00:54:48):
have grown up there.

(00:54:49):
And they're like, oh, if you think this is pretty, you should have seen it 20 years ago.

(00:54:54):
Did you just call us old summer?

(00:54:55):
No, no, no, no.

(00:54:58):
You guys aren't old at all.

(00:54:59):
No, no, no.

(00:54:59):
I'm talking about like.

(00:55:01):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(00:55:02):
We'll be old next year.

(00:55:03):
Talk about Eric, who's like 60.

(00:55:06):
If he hears this, he's going to keel over.

(00:55:08):
A boomer?

(00:55:10):
No, no, no.

(00:55:11):
He's not a boomer.

(00:55:12):
But he's been diving since before I was born.

(00:55:15):
So, you know, maybe that makes me young.

(00:55:20):
No, it's yeah, I couldn't.

(00:55:22):
I know Australia is going through coral bleaching events over there.

(00:55:27):
I just it's mind boggling that we're struggling so hard to stop it.

(00:55:32):
Well, what's what's incredibly sad because I was working in in June during the pandemic.

(00:55:40):
worst coral bleaching event that like people have ever seen down there in the Keys

(00:55:44):
and I was trying I was doing research and monitoring and I don't know if I ever

(00:55:49):
answered your question about like oh do you go check on them yes um the you asked

(00:55:54):
Russ if like we go back and check on the corals we check on them um it's a

(00:56:00):
one month and then six months and then every sequential year after that we check on

(00:56:05):
them and every single outplant like cluster that we have has a little tag on it

(00:56:10):
that's next to it so we can mark exactly which tag it is what location it is what

(00:56:15):
genotype it is and how old it is too we have vast databases for that that are

(00:56:21):
longer than my legs but um anyway so noah

(00:56:28):
announced i think like in april that we're in our fourth global bleaching event oh

(00:56:33):
because it's because of it's happening globally now so what did i mean have you all

(00:56:41):
done projections of what the ocean looks like without it without coral yeah i mean

(00:56:47):
worst case yeah yeah like worst case i know it's a terrible thing to think about

(00:56:52):
her but i'm sure there's models out there somewhere

(00:56:56):
Yeah, there's models out there, and it's bleak.

(00:57:02):
You're seeing the entire collapse of global fisheries at that point.

(00:57:07):
See, that's what people need to hear.

(00:57:10):
Which sustains millions of people, billions of people globally, not only for jobs, but for food.

(00:57:19):
So you're saying that that is going to be the first thing.

(00:57:24):
that you would see and then it's almost like from a scientific perspective you're

(00:57:30):
almost kind of like you don't want to acknowledge that as a possibility because

(00:57:36):
What the steps that I've seen my organization do,

(00:57:39):
we have this system called a sea bass system where they do the projections of what

(00:57:44):
ocean conditions will be like in 100 years,

(00:57:46):
300 years and so on.

(00:57:48):
And we subjugate like the corals that we have,

(00:57:51):
the genotypes that we have to those conditions to see which ones are the most

(00:57:56):
disease tolerant,

(00:57:57):
the most heat resistant,

(00:57:58):
the most tolerant of ocean acidification changes.

(00:58:03):
And then those are the corals that do best in those conditions for 100 years now.

(00:58:09):
Those are the ones that we focus on outplanting.

(00:58:12):
Scientists are kind of ahead in that aspect of the game of,

(00:58:15):
like,

(00:58:15):
trying to choose genotypes that will be able to survive in those conditions.

(00:58:21):
See, that's cool.

(00:58:22):
Yeah.

(00:58:23):
That's pretty badass.

(00:58:25):
Yeah.

(00:58:26):
And one of my friends, she's the one that developed the, like, system that we were using.

(00:58:30):
And I'm like, wow, you are...

(00:58:33):
Y'all think my little Instagram is impressive.

(00:58:36):
Holy shit.

(00:58:37):
Which I do.

(00:58:38):
People are like, whoa.

(00:58:40):
Yeah.

(00:58:41):
Which I do.

(00:58:42):
That's cool,

(00:58:42):
though,

(00:58:43):
that you're able to kind of model after rising temps and things of that nature and

(00:58:48):
pick the right stuff to go in there.

(00:58:53):
I never even thought that that would be something.

(00:58:55):
I just thought that...

(00:58:57):
out planting.

(00:58:58):
See what I did there.

(00:58:59):
Out planting was just you,

(00:59:02):
what you rescue is what you throw back in there,

(00:59:04):
you know,

(00:59:05):
but I guess it's more,

(00:59:07):
there's a lot more to it than that.

(00:59:09):
It's definitely a mixture of both because obviously we want to preserve the

(00:59:13):
genotypes that are naturally found,

(00:59:14):
like occurring currently,

(00:59:16):
um,

(00:59:18):
in the system or in the environment,

(00:59:21):
the local environment,

(00:59:22):
especially.

(00:59:23):
And, um,

(00:59:25):
But the mixture of genotypes and seeing what corals do best is something that we're

(00:59:33):
heavily focusing on as well.

(00:59:35):
It's wild.

(00:59:36):
And then,

(00:59:38):
again,

(00:59:38):
another crazy thing that people are suggesting is the crossbreeding of Caribbean

(00:59:45):
native species with Polynesian species and Australian species.

(00:59:51):
To see if we can come up with some sort of fierce crossbreed that would withstand all of this.

(00:59:57):
But then you run into heavy red tape with, oh, well, you don't want to introduce an invasive species.

(01:00:04):
Or what if it takes over the entire reef?

(01:00:06):
And then you have government policies and what's allowed and what's not allowed.

(01:00:09):
So it's all very interesting and...

(01:00:14):
incredibly rewarding to work at because it's kind of like a giant jigsaw puzzle of,

(01:00:19):
okay,

(01:00:19):
if I move this piece here,

(01:00:20):
what will be the effect here?

(01:00:22):
And can I do this and that?

(01:00:25):
So when are you guys going to hire me and Lynn?

(01:00:31):
yeah we'll be overconfident and we'll say you need us yeah you need us I need to

(01:00:35):
move to the Keys now I like Tampa though Tampa's doing good for us yeah but I think

(01:00:42):
I'd like the Keys a lot too the Keys the Keys is great I loved living or I love

(01:00:48):
living in the Keys like 10 out of 10 but it's more coming from somebody that lived

(01:00:55):
that lives there for the past three years three and a half years

(01:00:59):
it is great to visit for like a month or two and then it's great to leave yeah

(01:01:05):
because as it almost feels like another country because you're so disconnected from

(01:01:12):
everything like the closest you're gonna be to miami is three and a half hours like

(01:01:16):
right that's it unless i mean i was in the middle keys so i was in big pine i'm in

(01:01:20):
big pine key

(01:01:23):
um so that's definitely more middle key so that's where like the more of the

(01:01:28):
disconnect comes in but you know you're you get the water and you get to be able to

(01:01:32):
go on a boat and diving and fishing and whatever you want all the time but then

(01:01:37):
like oh if your car breaks down good luck walk

(01:01:45):
If you need to go to the doctor, well, that's going to be six months.

(01:01:49):
The day-to-day life aspect of things takes a lot longer, which some people just hate that.

(01:01:59):
It depends on how busy you want to be.

(01:02:02):
It's very laid back.

(01:02:03):
If you say, okay, guys, let's have dinner at 6, nobody's showing up until 7.30, which is great.

(01:02:09):
It sounds like Europe.

(01:02:11):
Yeah, yeah.

(01:02:12):
It's a very European lifestyle.

(01:02:14):
Very European lifestyle.

(01:02:15):
All right, now you just sold me.

(01:02:21):
down you know part of the reason why i do what i do is and talk on like podcasts

(01:02:28):
and do the social media and talk with students and try to do as a lot of a lot of

(01:02:33):
outreach is like one when i was working at that laboratory i thoroughly like

(01:02:40):
thrived in the mentorship aspect because i was the internship coordinator for my

(01:02:46):
program and i mentored over like 50 students when i was working there

(01:02:52):
And it was amazing.

(01:02:53):
And I thoroughly...

(01:02:55):
just enjoyed helping these young students.

(01:02:58):
Cause I saw a lot of myself in them of like,

(01:03:01):
I just love the ocean and I don't know what the hell to do with my life.

(01:03:05):
And I need somebody to help me.

(01:03:06):
And I wish I had that person and I didn't.

(01:03:09):
And I want to be that person for a ton of people.

(01:03:12):
So doing stuff like this and like just being a voice of like, Hey, I'm a scientist yet.

(01:03:20):
I can still talk and relate and like,

(01:03:24):
chill things out so norm so people can understand what the hell i'm talking about

(01:03:30):
when a lot of my colleagues are incredibly intelligent but they don't have a social

(01:03:35):
cue to save their lives so yeah i mean like being that bridge is really cool for

(01:03:41):
sure i can see scientists being we work with engineers and decently abrasive people

(01:03:51):
You know, it's hard to really like, hey, man, you want to go out to lunch?

(01:03:54):
It's like, no.

(01:03:56):
Yeah.

(01:03:57):
Nah.

(01:04:00):
Well, we've talked about the keys.

(01:04:02):
We know you're in Maine right now.

(01:04:04):
Where else have you traveled to see coral or to do any sort of marine biology type research?

(01:04:11):
Um, I've been to Belize, I've been to Hawaii, I've been to St.

(01:04:16):
Martin and St.

(01:04:16):
Thomas, and Italy.

(01:04:18):
Those are all places I've been.

(01:04:20):
Um,

(01:04:21):
I haven't really done,

(01:04:23):
like,

(01:04:24):
research stuff,

(01:04:25):
per se,

(01:04:26):
except for Belize and the Keys,

(01:04:29):
and Italy only kind of counts,

(01:04:30):
because that was my honeymoon,

(01:04:31):
so...

(01:04:33):
there you go yeah congrats to you regardless of how long you've been married i just

(01:04:39):
got married last september so it was a little recent oh oh thanks very nice yeah

(01:04:45):
we're going on 11 years so awesome we're old my my husband so weird to say i love

(01:04:51):
um and i have been together since high school so we're nine years in total there

(01:04:56):
you go same same for us we're 20 we're 20 years in amazing i can't wait we're old

(01:05:06):
So you've mentioned that you're in Maine, though, for your book.

(01:05:09):
Yeah.

(01:05:10):
Your next two books, I think you said.

(01:05:12):
Yeah.

(01:05:14):
Tell me all about your books.

(01:05:16):
So I'm an avid reader.

(01:05:19):
I read too much.

(01:05:20):
My husband calls me a book dragon because I hoard them.

(01:05:23):
And again, my interest in marine science was spurred on by books and encyclopedias and

(01:05:32):
all sorts of stuff so a publishing company reached out to me via my instagram and

(01:05:38):
they were like hey do you want to write a book and i was like hell yeah i do so um

(01:05:44):
yeah i've been working on it for past five months now um i haven't gotten as far as

(01:05:51):
i want to just because this is my first ever book and

(01:05:55):
I've been busy.

(01:05:56):
So, um, but yeah, I've been married, moving across the country, all sorts of things.

(01:06:02):
Um, but yeah,

(01:06:04):
It's been really cool.

(01:06:06):
And I'm essentially just writing about my experience as a graduating student into

(01:06:13):
the pandemic,

(01:06:15):
having mega girl boss vibes of getting my job and then working as a scientist

(01:06:22):
through a coral bleaching event and kind of like afterward.

(01:06:26):
of what the hell am I doing and my trajectory of like moving more from the choral

(01:06:33):
biologist into the science communication role that I'm in now.

(01:06:37):
And I don't know, just hoping to inspire more people and share information like I'm with you right now.

(01:06:46):
about coral reefs and like teaching people about outplants and when corals reach

(01:06:51):
sexual maturity and like the magic that is seen spawning and just all the crazy,

(01:06:58):
wonderful information that I've absorbed the past,

(01:07:00):
you know,

(01:07:01):
five years of my career.

(01:07:03):
And yeah, and basically doing the podcast, but in book form.

(01:07:09):
There you go.

(01:07:09):
So we got the Cliff Notes version.

(01:07:11):
But when it comes out,

(01:07:13):
we will purchase the actual book and get all the gritty details that maybe we

(01:07:20):
didn't get in today's interview.

(01:07:21):
Yeah, there'll be a lot more details.

(01:07:26):
Fair enough.

(01:07:28):
I can't wait to see it.

(01:07:29):
I can't wait to read it.

(01:07:30):
I'm excited.

(01:07:31):
It's coming along, finally, now that I'm in the middle of the woods, able to focus.

(01:07:36):
Sometimes you got to do that.

(01:07:38):
Cut it off.

(01:07:38):
Cut off everything except our podcast, because you got to interview with us.

(01:07:42):
Exactly.

(01:07:43):
I still have internet connection.

(01:07:44):
That's important.

(01:07:46):
Yeah.

(01:07:46):
Oh, yeah.

(01:07:47):
Oh, yeah.

(01:07:48):
Well, I think we're at a point now where we can say,

(01:07:52):
Let's switch gears to our more fun questions.

(01:07:55):
Yes.

(01:07:57):
Okay.

(01:07:59):
We always ask one fun question at the very end, but we're going to have two for you.

(01:08:03):
Okay.

(01:08:04):
And we have two for you because you're a Florida native.

(01:08:07):
I'm special.

(01:08:09):
Amazing.

(01:08:11):
All right.

(01:08:11):
So what, what is, what was, what remains your favorite thing about Florida life?

(01:08:20):
Florida living.

(01:08:21):
Being in Florida.

(01:08:25):
Cannot be bath salts.

(01:08:26):
It's not bath salts for Miami.

(01:08:31):
Favorite part of Florida is that it's always connected to the ocean somehow, some way.

(01:08:35):
Whether it's the fossils in your backyard or the river running through that leads to the ocean.

(01:08:40):
You live right on the beach, you're on the ocean.

(01:08:43):
I really enjoy that aspect and I really like that it's a melting pot of people.

(01:08:48):
Like,

(01:08:49):
There is just so many different people from the walks of life everywhere.

(01:08:53):
You walk down the street, at least where I was, and you can hear five different languages.

(01:08:59):
And so I thought that was really cool.

(01:09:01):
You get to meet people from all over because a lot of people who have never been to

(01:09:06):
Florida want to go to Florida because they hear about the craziness that is Florida

(01:09:10):
and they're like,

(01:09:11):
let's go down there.

(01:09:12):
So it's cool to meet that and then also see the...

(01:09:18):
I would just say the natural gems that are in Florida,

(01:09:22):
because you get such a wild,

(01:09:24):
drastic variety of ecosystems there that are so unique to Florida.

(01:09:30):
You can't find Everglades without Everglades.

(01:09:35):
gators and you can't drive down the highway and you're like oh yeah there's a gator

(01:09:38):
you know you can't crocs or you can't go diving and then there's a florida reef and

(01:09:43):
you see a pod of dolphins swim by you like you can't do those things many other

(01:09:48):
places yeah we agree on that for sure absolutely but it was a two-part question

(01:09:54):
didn't see this coming what's your least oh uh

(01:10:00):
This is my least.

(01:10:01):
Yeah, bath salts.

(01:10:02):
Miami.

(01:10:03):
Miami.

(01:10:03):
I don't know.

(01:10:06):
Miami's got a cool school there, so I'll forgive them.

(01:10:11):
I would say at the same token, the people.

(01:10:14):
Yes.

(01:10:15):
When you get a bunch of visitors who don't know and just are completely unaware,

(01:10:20):
you get also a lot of destruction of those ecosystems and the harassment of

(01:10:24):
wildlife because they just don't know.

(01:10:28):
And that isn't their fault,

(01:10:30):
but it's also heart-wrenching to see when you're diving and then you see somebody

(01:10:34):
that's carved their name into a coral.

(01:10:36):
And you're like, oh, okay.

(01:10:39):
And you just hope that that's just blatant, like, I don't know, and you're unaware.

(01:10:45):
And you don't want to see the destruction of those ecosystems.

(01:10:50):
Yeah.

(01:10:52):
and obviously the trash and stuff on the beaches is hard to see.

(01:10:57):
But again, that's why I do what I do.

(01:11:00):
I want to teach people and show people like,

(01:11:02):
hey,

(01:11:02):
these things are really special and super cool,

(01:11:05):
and I'm incredibly passionate about it,

(01:11:07):
and I care about it,

(01:11:09):
and hopefully me baring my heart and soul of why I care about this makes you care too.

(01:11:15):
So it's like a double-edged sword there with the people.

(01:11:18):
For sure.

(01:11:19):
For sure.

(01:11:20):
No, I can see that.

(01:11:20):
Cause like you said, we've got all walks of life.

(01:11:23):
We've got people coming down that are snowbirds and all that.

(01:11:26):
They don't, I mean, they don't live here.

(01:11:29):
They don't know not to touch a manatee or, or the boulders in the, in the water.

(01:11:34):
The other thing I might want to say is the traffic.

(01:11:45):
yeah yeah we're from we were born and raised in the dc area so to us traffic is is

(01:11:51):
a way of life at this point yeah but i agree florida's traffic is almost jumanji

(01:11:57):
like though yeah it's weird like i never thought i would see worse drivers than

(01:12:05):
where we're from right but these motherfuckers down here

(01:12:10):
Holy crap.

(01:12:11):
Yeah.

(01:12:12):
It blew our minds that you don't have to have a car inspection in Florida.

(01:12:16):
Nope.

(01:12:16):
So the cars that are on the roads.

(01:12:19):
Where it's like crumbling in the back bumper and you're like, oh, cool.

(01:12:23):
Don't follow too close behind that car.

(01:12:25):
Tire iron's going to fly out of the trunk.

(01:12:29):
Yes!

(01:12:29):
Never knew people didn't get car inspections.

(01:12:32):
I mean, I like it, though, because that's an extra expense we don't have.

(01:12:36):
Right, true.

(01:12:36):
What is it, like Final Destination, where that piece comes out?

(01:12:40):
Oh, yeah.

(01:12:41):
That's every time you get in the car.

(01:12:42):
It's very Final Destination any time you get in the car in Florida.

(01:12:46):
That car's bumper's doing this.

(01:12:48):
Why?

(01:12:48):
It's a little scary.

(01:12:51):
It's hanging on by six pieces of duct tape.

(01:12:55):
Literally.

(01:12:59):
We've got one more for you, Summer.

(01:13:00):
If you won $10 million tonight, what is the first thing you would do tomorrow?

(01:13:08):
Oh.

(01:13:10):
Oh.

(01:13:12):
I mean, I hope this means that you're giving me $10 million.

(01:13:15):
I wish.

(01:13:18):
I don't know.

(01:13:18):
That's...

(01:13:22):
Okay, the first thing I'd probably do is cry.

(01:13:25):
Second thing I'd probably do is call my parents and be like, holy shit!

(01:13:29):
And then the third thing I would do is probably start my own non-profit.

(01:13:36):
After working in the non-profit sector and in the private sector with corals and

(01:13:41):
seeing different ways of how people approach the environment and the conservation

(01:13:47):
of our beautiful planet.

(01:13:50):
I think I would start my own nonprofit because there's things that I would want to

(01:13:54):
do and implement in a different way than that I've seen.

(01:13:57):
And like, I really think that I could make a bigger impact than just me alone.

(01:14:05):
And if I had more voices and more people to be able to say, like,

(01:14:12):
hey, this is really great.

(01:14:13):
And I would love to like sponsor interns because a lot of marine science positions

(01:14:21):
that are internships are unfortunately unpaid.

(01:14:24):
And in this economy, you can't do that.

(01:14:28):
You can't have.

(01:14:29):
So you're forcing these 19,

(01:14:31):
20 year old students who probably have student loan debt into an internship that's

(01:14:37):
40 hours a week.

(01:14:38):
And then they often have to have a job on top of that.

(01:14:41):
And that's what I did.

(01:14:42):
during my internship and like yeah do it for the plot builds character but also

(01:14:46):
that sucks so right um and it can squash passion right yeah come out of school and

(01:14:52):
you're passionate you're ready to rock and roll and ideas and exactly you have to

(01:14:56):
have five jobs yeah yeah so i think i would sponsor a lot of interns too because

(01:15:03):
that i don't think people should have to go through choosing between trying to

(01:15:09):
support themselves and pursuing their dreams

(01:15:13):
I love that.

(01:15:13):
So I, that is a really good answer for your $10 million question.

(01:15:19):
I think again,

(01:15:21):
the idea of having a passion and then be able to fund that passion becomes critical,

(01:15:26):
especially for kids right out of college.

(01:15:28):
Yeah.

(01:15:29):
Unpaid internships.

(01:15:30):
That hurts me.

(01:15:31):
Cause I, I just, I tell there's a, there's a little kid in our neighborhood.

(01:15:36):
He likes mowing grass and he came over to my house the other day and said, Hey man,

(01:15:40):
Can I mow your grass?

(01:15:40):
I was like, I don't have any money.

(01:15:42):
No cash.

(01:15:43):
I have no cash.

(01:15:44):
And he was like, he was like 10, 11 years old.

(01:15:46):
He was like, I don't care.

(01:15:47):
I'll do it for free.

(01:15:48):
And I was like, no, no, no, no, no.

(01:15:51):
Time is money, friend.

(01:15:52):
Not for you are a nerd.

(01:15:54):
I am.

(01:15:58):
But, uh, I said, you're not doing that for free, but he loves the fish.

(01:16:01):
So I gave him a fishing rod and he was so, so happy about that.

(01:16:05):
And, but I just, that to me is just wrong.

(01:16:10):
I'm not saying that you shouldn't do internships.

(01:16:13):
I'm just saying it's hard for me to swallow making someone work 40 hours a week for free.

(01:16:19):
Right.

(01:16:19):
Yeah,

(01:16:20):
when I was an intern,

(01:16:21):
I lived in intern dorms on site and there was 15 of us that lived in the dorms and

(01:16:28):
that was a large discussion a lot of the times of like,

(01:16:31):
screw this,

(01:16:32):
this is ridiculous.

(01:16:33):
You know,

(01:16:34):
you're put in a position of like,

(01:16:37):
of just pure,

(01:16:41):
I don't know,

(01:16:43):
like,

(01:16:46):
the word just,

(01:16:47):
blah,

(01:16:47):
blah,

(01:16:47):
blah,

(01:16:47):
blah.

(01:16:48):
left my brain but essentially it's not very open because you have to be in a

(01:16:54):
position financially just be able to support yourself and one that's not fair and

(01:16:57):
then right too like it's hard for somebody that's trying to start their career to

(01:17:03):
be in a position that they can't support themselves so removing that barrier would

(01:17:07):
be awesome and i post a lot on my instagram stories of paid

(01:17:14):
internships so a lot of organizations are trying to change that but there are still

(01:17:19):
a few sticklers out there and the majority are still unpaid so i'm trying to post

(01:17:23):
all the paid ones like here get paid for your time oh yeah for sure oh that's

(01:17:30):
awesome well speaking of your instagram let's tell people where they can find you

(01:17:35):
Yeah.

(01:17:36):
So it's summer.scientist on Instagram.

(01:17:40):
And I actually built a website.

(01:17:42):
Finally.

(01:17:42):
So that's literally just www.summerscientist.com.

(01:17:49):
And they can find like free resources on there,

(01:17:52):
like job and internship opportunities,

(01:17:54):
how to build a resume,

(01:17:56):
how to write a CV,

(01:17:58):
all the different places that I've been.

(01:18:00):
Like I've been in a kid's book.

(01:18:01):
I've been on other podcasts.

(01:18:03):
I'll put y'all's podcast on there, direct link to it.

(01:18:06):
so they can hear me talk about my stuff and then um all my wildlife travel trips

(01:18:11):
are on there too so if they want to join that to go to costa rica with me in june

(01:18:15):
2025 they can find that on there i'll go awesome yeah go well come on let's go

(01:18:23):
let's do it

(01:18:25):
I'm not kidding.

(01:18:28):
It's open to anybody.

(01:18:29):
It's June, 2025.

(01:18:31):
It's, um, it's before father's day.

(01:18:34):
So don't, don't worry.

(01:18:35):
You won't miss out.

(01:18:37):
And, uh, I know I love that little tab.

(01:18:39):
Like, there you go.

(01:18:40):
See,

(01:18:41):
um,

(01:18:42):
and we're literally just going to spend a week in Costa Rica,

(01:18:45):
just romping around and zip lining and going to waterfalls and,

(01:18:50):
um,

(01:18:51):
Kayaking and snorkeling and hiking volcanoes and I'll do basically a lot of this of

(01:18:57):
talking to people about coral reefs and why they're cool and why pursuing a

(01:19:04):
career in science is totally the bomb and all sorts of all the answering all the

(01:19:11):
questions because a lot of students have a lot of like i need advice i don't know

(01:19:15):
what to do but it pertains i just to them individually and i do as much as i can on

(01:19:21):
my instagram but being able to meet people in person and share that knowledge is so

(01:19:26):
important so i figured hey why not do it in costa rica yeah that's a good that's a

(01:19:31):
pretty good venue yeah

(01:19:36):
It's direct flights.

(01:19:37):
The hotels are all covered.

(01:19:39):
Most of the meals are covered.

(01:19:41):
It's great.

(01:19:43):
We'll check it out.

(01:19:45):
I keep making it sweeter, like, oh, you should go with me.

(01:19:50):
You had me go with you to Costa Rica.

(01:19:52):
I mean, you can stop selling there.

(01:19:57):
There's also natural hot springs, so I'm not excited about that at all.

(01:20:01):
I mean, just adding layers.

(01:20:02):
Awesome.

(01:20:03):
Ta-ra.

(01:20:07):
We can't thank you enough, Summer, for coming and joining us.

(01:20:10):
And, you know, like I said, I follow you on Instagram.

(01:20:13):
I'm an avid, avid summer scientist on Instagram watcher.

(01:20:18):
So I appreciate everything that you've taught us today.

(01:20:21):
And everything you do.

(01:20:23):
Absolutely.

(01:20:24):
And I hope you keep going forward with your mentoring and your books.

(01:20:27):
And I can't wait to read the book.

(01:20:29):
So again, thank you.

(01:20:31):
Thank you guys.

(01:20:32):
I was so happy to see you wanted to talk to me and this has been really fun.

(01:20:36):
I thoroughly enjoyed it.

(01:20:40):
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